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Dude. Wikipedia calls Hoboken a "bedroom community".
Wikipedia isn't a resouce. I could go into Wikipedia right now and say Hoboken is the greatest corporate center on earth.
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Originally Posted by jobber23
I don't know of any better description of suburbs. Few tall office buildings and density of population does not change the fact that those are suburbs, dense and tall but still suburbs. You and most out of staters believe that you can build a few tall buildings, open a few restuarants and bars and all of a sudden you Manhattan
You're acting like you're representing Manhattan or something. Any Manhattanite knows that Hoboken and the like are very urban, and have nothing to do with suburbia.
In fact, much of NYC is more suburban than Hoboken. Almost all of Staten Island, much of Queens, and some small portions of Brooklyn and the Bronx.
And a place doesn't need to "look like Manhattan" to be urban. No place in America "looks like Manhattan", so you are saying that the entire nation (including Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx) is nothing but a suburb? Get real.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jobber23
PS Those cultural institutions you mentioned... Keep them
They aren't my cultural instutions, but I was responding to your wacky claim that there is no culture in NJ. And, again, it has nothing to do with the thread topic.
Dude. Wikipedia calls Hoboken a "bedroom community". I don't know of any better description of suburbs. Few tall office buildings and density of population does not change the fact that those are suburbs, dense and tall but still suburbs. You and most out of staters believe that you can build a few tall buildings, open a few restuarants and bars and all of a sudden you have Manhattan
PS Those cultural institutions you mentioned especially those like NJPAC located in picturesque Newark: keep them
I'm sorry, but anybody who calls Hoboken a "bedroom community" either A) doesn't know the definition of a bedroom community, or B) knows nothing about Hoboken. Or both A and B.
Wikipedia isn't a resouce. I could go into Wikipedia right now and say Hoboken is the greatest corporate center on earth.
You're acting like you're representing Manhattan or something. Any Manhattanite knows that Hoboken and the like are very urban, and have nothing to do with suburbia.
In fact, much of NYC is more suburban than Hoboken. Almost all of Staten Island, much of Queens, and some small portions of Brooklyn and the Bronx.
And a place doesn't need to "look like Manhattan" to be urban. No place in America "looks like Manhattan", so you are saying that the entire nation (including Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx) is nothing but a suburb? Get real.
They aren't my cultural instutions, but I was responding to your wacky claim that there is no culture in NJ. And, again, it has nothing to do with the thread topic.
Wikipedia is much more reliable than anything that you can read in this forum and defeinitely anything you write here. And yes you can edit it but it will be corrected right after.
Again, Hoboken is a suburbia as the "city" is not self-sustained or self-efficient, its nothing more than a place to sleep and eat.
You don't think you understand the concept of suburbia versus actual city thinking it has something to do with types of building/infrastructure and not the function of the location.
Hoboken is a suburb without real industry and cultural life and I don't mean paintings by dead people hanging on walls. Hoboken lacks actual city life, which is not surprisng since it has been chategorized by Wikipedia as a bedroom community.
I'm sorry, but anybody who calls Hoboken a "bedroom community" either A) doesn't know the definition of a bedroom community, or B) knows nothing about Hoboken. Or both A and B.
Maybe it is you who doesn't know what bedroom community is or knows nothing about Hoboken? I definetely trust Wikipedia more than I trust your opinion here.
But of course. New Jersey with no single decent city over 500,000 very urban. I think you confuse density with urbanity.
And I'm not sure what you confuse with urbanity. New Jersey has the most urban population of any state with 94% of it's population living in urban areas, it's the most densely populated state which goes towards urbanity, and the only state that has all of it's counties named urban by the Census Bureau. There's no argument to be had here, NJ is the most urban state and that's all there is to it.
What does having any city with a certain population have to do with anything. It's the area that matters in this case, not the arbitrary city proper lines. If you cut up NYC into a 1000 tiny little cities, the area would still be urban.
Maybe it is you who doesn't know what bedroom community is or knows nothing about Hoboken? I definetely trust Wikipedia more than I trust your opinion here.
On the bedroom community page, Wikipedia says, "A commuter town is an urban community that is primarily residential". If that's your definition of suburb, that's ok, but I never read the rule where a suburb couldn't be urban. I think I know what your confusion is so I'll try to explain it to you. A suburb is a type of place, an area where people mostly commute somewhere else if that works for you, urbanity is like the quality of a place, like the conditions of the place where those people live. There's no rule saying a "suburb" can't be "urban".
And I'm not sure what you confuse with urbanity. New Jersey has the most urban population of any state with 94% of it's population living in urban areas, it's the most densely populated state which goes towards urbanity, and the only state that has all of it's counties named urban by the Census Bureau. There's no argument to be had here, NJ is the most urban state and that's all there is to it.
What does having any city with a certain population have to do with anything. It's the area that matters in this case, not the arbitrary city proper lines. If you cut up NYC into a 1000 tiny little cities, the area would still be urban.
The thing is that people of New York really like to live together in a big city and people of New Jersey don't. The only decent sized city, Newark, has been abandonded by New Jerseyans and left to die, which is continuing to do up till today. I have no idea how can you calissify as urban all the western and southern counties of New Jersey but anyways government classification does not really matter as it can't make Trenton or Clifton any more urban they the already are (have anybody here seen the proud capitol of New Jersey?
Part of the problem is that the census bureau does not really distinguish urban from suburban
The thing is that people of New York really like to live together in a big city and people of New Jersey don't. The only decent sized city, Newark, has been abandonded by New Jerseyans and left to die, which is continuing to do up till today. I have no idea how can you calissify as urban all the western and southern counties of New Jersey but anyways government classification does not really matter as it can't make Trenton or Clifton any more urban they the already are
Part of the problem is that the census bureau does not really distinguish urban from suburban
How dense are you? Maybe a visual will help...
See New York here? If you cut it up into a thousand little cities, would each of those cease to be urban?
And do you see Jersey City next to it and Newark right behind it on the map above?
If you extended one of their boundaries to include all the people in the county would they be urban then? It doesn't matter how many people live within Newark's city limits, that's an arbitrary line. Just like all of New York City's area would still be urban if it was divided into a thousand smaller cities. The area is urban and there's no denying it. The city lines within the area have nothing to do with it's urbanity.
"The thing is that people of New York really like to live together in a big city and people of New Jersey don't."
Except that the people of New Jersey live in a very urban environment anyway with city lines cutting the area into small bits. The thing is, if New York City was cut up by a million city lines, the urban quality of the area wouldn't magically change at all.
On the bedroom community page, Wikipedia says, "A commuter town is an urban community that is primarily residential". If that's your definition of suburb, that's ok, but I never read the rule where a suburb couldn't be urban. I think I know what your confusion is so I'll try to explain it to you. A suburb is a type of place, an area where people mostly commute somewhere else if that works for you, urbanity is like the quality of a place, like the conditions of the place where those people live. There's no rule saying a "suburb" can't be "urban".
Yes, "urban" as in not "rural". Then again suburb is suburb - a boring place with not much of a city life. It does not change the fact that New Jerseyans and not big city folk, they don't like big cities, they abandoned their own demoting themselves to living in an endless suburbia.
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