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View Poll Results: Which U.S. city has the best skyline?
Atlanta 31 4.45%
Dallas 34 4.88%
Houston 37 5.31%
Miami 26 3.73%
New York 214 30.70%
Boston 11 1.58%
Philadelphia 31 4.45%
Pittsburgh 23 3.30%
Chicago 206 29.56%
San Francisco 27 3.87%
Los Angeles 24 3.44%
Seattle 33 4.73%
Voters: 697. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-12-2012, 12:37 PM
 
425 posts, read 270,028 times
Reputation: 138

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MI_OH View Post
That's my point. You don't get it, do you?

If a carpenter announced the world's tallest building in HK or NYC, it would never even get to the City Council. They wouldn't take the proposal seriously.

In Chicago, the city is sometimes desperate for attention (Second City Syndrome, not unique to Chicago, however), so they latch on to any proposal, no matter how outlandish.

If you're a more established city, you don't need to waste time with outlandish proposals or wacky ideas. You ask the developer what he brings to the table, and then make him build an argument why the city should approve the proposal.

Are you actually implying that Chicago isnt an established city, architecturally?


Jesus.

Who gave you a keyboard and internet access?

 
Old 09-12-2012, 12:41 PM
 
425 posts, read 270,028 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by prelude91 View Post
Actually construction started briefly on the spire back in like 2008.

Ssshhh..
 
Old 09-12-2012, 12:41 PM
 
1,750 posts, read 2,804,900 times
Reputation: 764
Quote:
Originally Posted by MI_OH View Post
That's my point. You don't get it, do you?

If a carpenter announced the world's tallest building in HK or NYC, it would never even get to the City Council. They wouldn't take the proposal seriously.

In Chicago, the city is sometimes desperate for attention (Second City Syndrome, not unique to Chicago, however), so they latch on to any proposal, no matter how outlandish.

If you're a more established city, you don't need to waste time with outlandish proposals or wacky ideas. You ask the developer what he brings to the table, and then make him build an argument why the city should approve the proposal.
I have so many questions on your post. Do you work for the NYC City Council? How do you know? Who is "you" in your "more established city" scenario? How can a city have feelings? it is not a living thing. How can you not think Chicago is one of the most established cities in the US if not the world?
 
Old 09-12-2012, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Nob Hill, San Francisco, CA
2,346 posts, read 3,200,339 times
Reputation: 1077
NYC
Under construction 92
Planned 131

Houston
Under construction 21
Planned 91

Miami and Miami Beach
Under construction 20
Planned 146

Seattle
Under construction 9
Planned 44

Philadelphia
Under construction 2
Planned 60

Chicago
Under construction 22
Planned 75

Boston
Under construction 13
Planned 49

San Francisco
Under construction 3
Planned 45

LA
Under construction 5
Planned 37

Dallas
Under construction 7
Planned 20

Atlanta
Under constriction 5
Planned 39

Looks like NYC is the only skyline going through big changes right now and maybe Miami, Houston, and Seattle.
 
Old 09-12-2012, 12:42 PM
 
65 posts, read 62,856 times
Reputation: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by resuelppA View Post
Are you actually implying that Chicago isnt an established city, architecturally?
No, but I am explicitly stating that Chicago is blindly pro-development, which is my point!

They will approve any proposal, and essentially have no zoning (because zoning can be overridden with approval of local alderman). Because they are so pro-development, they get lots of fantasy proposals over the years.

So if your claim is that you like the Chicago skyline because there are, in theory, no limits, then I agree.

But, in reality, Chicago doesn't have the economics to compete with these other cities, so these multitude of fantasy proposals are never built.

I don't care about unrealistic proposals. I care about actual skylines, and real, concrete, plans. In the real world, there's no comparison between the two skylines. Chicago doesn't have enough demand to generate enough major towers these days.
 
Old 09-12-2012, 12:45 PM
 
65 posts, read 62,856 times
Reputation: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by prelude91 View Post
Actually construction started briefly on the spire back in like 2008.
No, construction never started.

The contracters built a hole, and then the developer ran out of money for excavation, and the site was abandoned.

It sits abandoned to this day, and will eventually be sold for pennies on the dollar, hopefully to a reputable developer.
 
Old 09-12-2012, 12:46 PM
 
1,750 posts, read 2,804,900 times
Reputation: 764
Quote:
Originally Posted by MI_OH View Post
No, but I am explicitly stating that Chicago is blindly pro-development, which is my point!

They will approve any proposal, and essentially have no zoning (because zoning can be overridden with approval of local alderman). Because they are so pro-development, they get lots of fantasy proposals over the years.

So if your claim is that you like the Chicago skyline because there are, in theory, no limits, then I agree.

But, in reality, Chicago doesn't have the economics to compete with these other cities, so these multitude of fantasy proposals are never built.

I don't care about unrealistic proposals. I care about actual skylines, and real, concrete, plans. In the real world, there's no comparison between the two skylines. Chicago doesn't have enough demand to generate enough major towers these days.
Chicago is definitely pro development, but it actually has some of the strictest zoning requirements in the country, both historically and currently.
 
Old 09-12-2012, 12:47 PM
 
1,750 posts, read 2,804,900 times
Reputation: 764
Quote:
Originally Posted by MI_OH View Post
No, construction never started.

The contracters built a hole, and then the developer ran out of money for excavation, and the site was abandoned.

It sits abandoned to this day, and will eventually be sold for pennies on the dollar, hopefully to a reputable developer.
Breaking ground is construction.
 
Old 09-12-2012, 12:48 PM
 
425 posts, read 270,028 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by MI_OH View Post
No, but I am explicitly stating that Chicago is blindly pro-development, which is my point!

They will approve any proposal, and essentially have no zoning (because zoning can be overridden with approval of local alderman). Because they are so pro-development, they get lots of fantasy proposals over the years.

So if your claim is that you like the Chicago skyline because there are, in theory, no limits, then I agree.

But, in reality, Chicago doesn't have the economics to compete with these other cities, so these multitude of fantasy proposals are never built.

I don't care about unrealistic proposals. I care about actual skylines, and real, concrete, plans. In the real world, there's no comparison between the two skylines. Chicago doesn't have enough demand to generate enough major towers these days.
Sounds like Dubai and China to me.

The economy slowed everyone down.

NYC has more than its share of dead proposals as well. Im not even going to bother getting the list.

No comparison between the two skylines? Is that why its 30% to 28%? Thats some none-comparison.
 
Old 09-12-2012, 12:49 PM
 
65 posts, read 62,856 times
Reputation: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by prelude91 View Post
I have so many questions on your post. Do you work for the NYC City Council? How do you know? Who is "you" in your "more established city" scenario? How can a city have feelings? it is not a living thing. How can you not think Chicago is one of the most established cities in the US if not the world?
I don't know how any of your questions are relevant to the conversation.

In short, NYC has tough zoning, and Chicago doesn't. Chicago, in practice, has no zoning.

So you can propose anything in Chicago, and it will be approved, if they want it to be approved. If this is your point (Chicago is more pro-development) then I wholeheartedly agree.

The point is relevant to Chicago Spire, because the fact that it was approved is directly related to the city's stance towards development. Chicago is well known as being ultra pro-development, and NYC is well known as being a development minefield. Certainly you have my 100% agreement on this.

The difference, however, is that NYC is ultra high-demand, and Chicago isn't, so, in practice, far, far more highrises get built in NYC than in Chicago. If NYC were pro-development like Chicago, the difference would probably be even greater, but NYC tends to have many NIMBYs and historic areas.
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