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Once the novelty has worn off, I think Washingtonians will regret having a trolley (at least along Georgia Avenue). I think streetcars are for tourists, and in DC, a streetcar line would be most suitable along Pennsylvania Avenue/Capitol Hill. Penn Ave is wide enough where a trolley could have its own designated lane. That is not the case for most DC streets, however, and a trolley would only cause already congested streets to become even more congested.
Plus, there are other factors that people aren't accounting for. For example, those rails get very slippery when it rains, and a lot of accidents result. In my neighborhood, there are trolley tracks imbedded in cobblestones. And that street runs at a decline/incline. There's a section of Germantown Avenue where you can stand and reasonably expect to observe two or three car crashes on a cold, rainy day because of slippery tracks.
That hasn't happened in Boston , Pittsburgh or Portland , why would it happen in DC. Tracks are no more slipper then concert or asphalt. I don't think there using that cobblestone route , there using a new route. To think there will be crashes is absurd , if never heard of that , although ive heard of bike accidents. Driving habits along the streetcar corridors should improve ,drivers tend to be more cautious around Rail vehicles.
Its not that big an issue , Streetcars usually go on wide streets. Streetcars and LRT rarely breakdown , buses breakdown more then any type of Rail vehicle. You can't add capacity to a bus like you can do to a streetcar. In Philly there system is big allowing trains to be re-routed.
Cities got rid of streetcars for a reason. You have to maintain the tracks. You have to maintain the cables. And when they breakdown (and they will breakdown), they become roadblocks. You also have to remember that you can't detour a trolley. If there's a big accident at an intersection, a bus can always go around it. Buses are just so much more versatile than trolleys. I don't see why a city would install a trolley system unless the purpose was to shuffle tourists from downtown to a shopping/entertainment (like Georgetown).
That hasn't happened in Boston , Pittsburgh or Portland , why would it happen in DC. Tracks are no more slipper then concert or asphalt. I don't think there using that cobblestone route , there using a new route. To think there will be crashes is absurd , if never heard of that , although ive heard of bike accidents. Driving habits along the streetcar corridors should improve ,drivers tend to be more cautious around Rail vehicles.
But the Green Line runs underground for a good portion of its route. When I lived in Boston, I think the part of the route that was exposed used to be elevated. I don't recall the Green Line running side-by-side with cars and buses, but I haven't lived in Boston for a long time, so I don't really remember.
Tracks do cause accidents. That's why they pulled up a good portion of the tracks in my neighborhood.
"Neighbors and community leaders in Mount Airy are outraged that SEPTA crews paved over trolley tracks in the center of a historic stretch of Germantown Avenue.
The tracks between Gowen Avenue and Cresheim Valley Drive were paved Friday because too many traffic accidents were taking place on that stretch, which is covered by historic Belgian blocks on both sides of the trolley tracks, SEPTA spokesman Jim Whitaker said yesterday.
The Belgian blocks had been sinking, causing the trolley tracks - which have not been used for several years - to rise above the surface, making the road bumpy and hazardous, Whitaker said.
He noted that neighbors had reported more than 200 traffic accidents between Gowen Avenue and Cresheim Valley Drive over the last two years."
Streetcars look cool, but they're a headache all around. First, you have to lay down track. This means that you have to block off lanes of major thoroughfares and businesses located on those routes suffer. With buses, you just fill up the gas tank and get them on the road. No infrastucture developments necessary.
That's the type of short-sighted thinking that has resulted in the mazes of highways cutting through and surrounding our major cities. Instead of building commuter rail and subway extensions, cities simply added more lanes because it was the quick fix. I'm not sure how exactly it will block off lanes to create light rail, especially if using the method that Boston has.
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Second, streetcars breakdown just like buses, but streetcar breakdowns are far more inconvenient. You just can't tow a trolley out of the way as you could a bus. And if you really need to be somewhere, you can't rely on SEPTA/WMATA/BART/MTA to send another trolley because the disabled trolley prevents anything else from running on the tracks. One bus could simply go around another bus. Can't do that with a streetcar, though.
That happens for any rail...not just street car. Buses certainly are more convenient in that aspect.
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
Plus, there are other factors that people aren't accounting for. For example, those rails get very slippery when it rains, and a lot of accidents result.
This is true...my girlfriend was stuck at BU East for like 20 minutes because a car had crashed into the tracks due to snow. At the same time, I wouldn't necessarily blame the tracks. It's probably just due to slippery conditions overall.
They are finally going to link Deleware and Market street with light rail, with a plan to also extend to the Navy Yard and all the new development there as well
But the Green Line runs underground for a good portion of its route. When I lived in Boston, I think the part of the route that was exposed used to be elevated. I don't recall the Green Line running side-by-side with cars and buses, but I haven't lived in Boston for a long time, so I don't really remember.
They're not elevated...Boston's B Line runs in the middle of Commonwealth Avenue, the E runs in between Huntington and later on Huntington (which I don't like...that's when it becomes too much like a bus), the C runs in between Beacon St, and the D Line doesn't run on a street. It runs like a regular heavy rail train...just on light rail.
Cities got rid of streetcars for a reason. You have to maintain the tracks. You have to maintain the cables. And when they breakdown (and they will breakdown), they become roadblocks. You also have to remember that you can't detour a trolley. If there's a big accident at an intersection, a bus can always go around it. Buses are just so much more versatile than trolleys. I don't see why a city would install a trolley system unless the purpose was to shuffle tourists from downtown to a shopping/entertainment (like Georgetown).
No there was a streetcar scandal , big oil and GM did that. /but Philly kept there network which is being upgraded as we speak. You can detour a streetcar if the system is big enough like Philly. Buses have a stigma attached to them and you can't add capacity to them.
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
But the Green Line runs underground for a good portion of its route. When I lived in Boston, I think the part of the route that was exposed used to be elevated. I don't recall the Green Line running side-by-side with cars and buses, but I haven't lived in Boston for a long time, so I don't really remember.
Tracks do cause accidents. That's why they pulled up a good portion of the tracks in my neighborhood.
"Neighbors and community leaders in Mount Airy are outraged that SEPTA crews paved over trolley tracks in the center of a historic stretch of Germantown Avenue.
The tracks between Gowen Avenue and Cresheim Valley Drive were paved Friday because too many traffic accidents were taking place on that stretch, which is covered by historic Belgian blocks on both sides of the trolley tracks, SEPTA spokesman Jim Whitaker said yesterday.
The Belgian blocks had been sinking, causing the trolley tracks - which have not been used for several years - to rise above the surface, making the road bumpy and hazardous, Whitaker said.
He noted that neighbors had reported more than 200 traffic accidents between Gowen Avenue and Cresheim Valley Drive over the last two years."
Ive never heard of that before , sounds like bad driving. Slippery roads overall caused that.
That's the type of short-sighted thinking that has resulted in the mazes of highways cutting through and surrounding our major cities. Instead of building commuter rail and subway extensions, cities simply added more lanes because it was the quick fix. I'm not sure how exactly it will block off lanes to create light rail, especially if using the method that Boston has.
I wouldn't place the decision to get rid of streetcars and the decision to build highways in the same category. It still makes a lot of sense to run buses over trolleys. You don't need to build a track for them to run, and now that many of them are running off natural gas, the environmental impact has been mitigated.
I think the H Street line in DC is good for that area of town (as far as helping bars and restaurants), but I don't think it provides a superior mode of transportation over the X2 bus that currently runs along that street.
I wouldn't place the decision to get rid of streetcars and the decision to build highways in the same category. It still makes a lot of sense to run buses over trolleys. You don't need to build a track for them to run, and now that many of them are running off natural gas, the environmental impact has been mitigated.
I wasn't saying they're necessarily in the same category. But throwing out a bunch of buses instead of changing the infrastructure is the same trainof thought...see what I did there?!!?! BAHAHAHAHAHAHA
No there was a streetcar scandal , big oil and GM did that. /but Philly kept there network which is being upgraded as we speak.
I don't know about that. I think it's more likely that the trolleys were more expensive to run than buses.
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Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey
You can detour a streetcar if the system is big enough like Philly.
I don't know about this either.
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Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey
Buses have a stigma attached to them and you can't add capacity to them.
You could always change that by getting nicer buses.
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