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Old 01-21-2011, 03:27 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,113 posts, read 3,234,415 times
Reputation: 836

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^^^Was trying to go for more national stores. I agree Wegman's is nice, but every region has local stores that are similar. Plus, at 5 points each, that would not have changed anything. I gave more weight to actual restaurants and chefs, obviously. This year Philly will surpass Atlanta because Atlanta's 5 Diamond signature restaurant closed. Other than that, very little will change.
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Old 01-21-2011, 03:31 PM
 
9,976 posts, read 7,428,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jluke65780 View Post
You can't use those list to to make your assumptions about the cities with the best restaurant scene:

1. Expensive as hell.
2. Its not based just on the quality of food, but service, atmosphere and other things.
Yeah, the diamond rankings are basically about high priced amenities, décor and ambiance... Different strokes for different folks... I'd rather take a top-notch hole-in-the-wall eatery than some big overpriced expense account joint...
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Old 01-21-2011, 04:07 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,113 posts, read 3,234,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Just curious on Philly with your metric and do you include only places withing the city but use the MSA population?
Just saw this question. Actually, most restaurants are "in the city" for almost every city. There are, of course, some exceptions. I broadened my search for restaurants in the "area" that residents of Philly would go to. I spent A LOT of time basically googling places to see if they fell within short driving distance of a city. Philly is not unique in that most 4-5 diamond restaurants are in the city, but I didn't just look at highly rated restaurants. I looked at diners and just about everything. Philly received 100 additional points just for having a "concentration" of restaurants, which most cities did not get, AND 100 points just for having a food identity/tradition/history.

Believe me, everything was looked at.

Interesting point, some metros have dual concentrations or concentrations away from the city. In Arizona, everything from notable cheap eats to Whole Foods to fine restaurants are all around Scottsdale. In the Bay Area, there are two concentrations: downtown San Fran and Wine Country. In Dallas and Atlanta, the restaurants are so scattered about. In South Florida, most of the restaurants are at the beach. In Orlando, all of the restaurants are at Disney/Universal hotels. You get the gist.

I had a multi-tiered ranking process that took into account everything so that every city could boost its points.

If you want to know how I scored Philadelphia:

Philadelphia, pop. 5,968,252 (not much of a diff between MSA and CSA)

5 Fountain Restaurant***** 21 (5 stars on both AAA and Mobil, added years to increase its points)
4 The Green Room (Wilmington) 25
4 LaCroix at the Rittenhouse**** 19
4 Swann Lounge and Café 16
4 Savona 11
4 Morimoto 8
4 Moshulu 6
4 Barclay Prime 4
4 XIX (Nineteen) Restaurant 4
4 Restaurant Mazzi 2
4 10 Arts Bistro and Lounge by Eric Ripert 1
4 Le Bec-Fin 1

1 Five Diamond Restaurant

13 Restaurants in Total (11 Four Diamond, 1 Five Diamond worth 2 restaurants)


Side-score

Are the Restaurants Concentrated?: Y 100
No. of James Beard Nominees: 11 220
No. of James Beard Winners: 3 150 (including a couple James Beard All American Classics, which are mom and pops/diners with history and notably good food)
No. of Top Chef/Iron Chef Contestants: 7 140
No. of Top Chefs: 1 50
No. of Iron Chefs: 1 50
No. of Diners, Drive-Ins, Dives: 8 80
No. of Food Feuds: 6 60
No. of Whole Foods, Trader Joes, and Fresh Markets: 16 80
No. of Gayot/other rated Restaurants and Chefs: 14 140
Food Tradition/History: Y 100
Total Side-Score: 1,170

Total aggregate score: 1,663, per capita 27.8641

Philly ranked 9th in aggregate measure, 7th in side-score, 18th in per capita, 15th in total restaurants, 22nd in Five Diamond restaurants.

9 + 7 + 18 + 15 + 22 = 71, 1 point behind Atlanta (will pass this year) and 12th in the country overall.

If you want the file, DM me. If you think Philly deserves higher: prove it. I have never seen a ranking this comprehensive. I'm sure everyone wishes their city were No. 1 .
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Old 01-21-2011, 04:13 PM
 
Location: The City
19,350 posts, read 16,686,676 times
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Only one quick point, there are two Iron chefs - Morimoto and Garces - good stuff overall

am also suprised no Vetri - many foodies consider the best Italian in the US but again kudos on a lot of time and criteria!
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Old 01-21-2011, 04:16 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,113 posts, read 3,234,415 times
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I didn't include Morimoto in any cities. I believe he lives in NYC where he has 2? restaurants. He has restaurants everywhere from Boca Raton, FL to Napa, CA to Philly to NYC. Philly does not own Morimoto, only Garces. He is originally from Japan, anyways. Garces lives in Philly and has 7 restaurants there. He is definitely Philly. Garces also has earned Philly a James Beard award. Morimoto's restaurants in Philly haven't (though I think one of Morimoto's restaurants there might have received 4 diamonds in the past).
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Old 01-21-2011, 06:09 PM
 
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lol @ whole foods and trader joes, what does that have to do with anything. Their ethnic selections are horrible and not authentic. Trader Joe's is pretty low quality products all around, similar to a hip ALDI, it IS owned by ALDI. Whole Foods just has organic produce but some other markets mop the floor with them.
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Old 01-21-2011, 06:31 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,113 posts, read 3,234,415 times
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I couldn't have included local markets because I just don't have that time or ability to look into it for 70-75 individual areas (I mean what I have took probably 30+ hours of work and tooling around with). I agree with you, but I knew that if I didn't try to include every little measurable thing, everyone would have some sort of problem with the rankings. The WF, TJs, and FMs only count for 5 points apiece and don't really change much. They just allow some of the smaller markets to score "higher than 0" LoL. If you took them out of the equation, not much would change. Also, local marketplaces/regional marketplaces vary so much by location. WFs, TJs, and FMs are pretty much the same everywhere they're located, so that makes it easier to account for. If a city has a lot of WFs, then it probably has a lot of individual, specialized marketplaces, too. If a city has a lot of FMs, it probably has lots of good farmer's markets, too. I just can't research the latter and I used WFs and TJs and FMs as indicators.
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Old 01-21-2011, 10:16 PM
 
48 posts, read 93,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsimms3 View Post
I couldn't have included local markets because I just don't have that time or ability to look into it for 70-75 individual areas (I mean what I have took probably 30+ hours of work and tooling around with). I agree with you, but I knew that if I didn't try to include every little measurable thing, everyone would have some sort of problem with the rankings. The WF, TJs, and FMs only count for 5 points apiece and don't really change much. They just allow some of the smaller markets to score "higher than 0" LoL. If you took them out of the equation, not much would change. Also, local marketplaces/regional marketplaces vary so much by location. WFs, TJs, and FMs are pretty much the same everywhere they're located, so that makes it easier to account for. If a city has a lot of WFs, then it probably has a lot of individual, specialized marketplaces, too. If a city has a lot of FMs, it probably has lots of good farmer's markets, too. I just can't research the latter and I used WFs and TJs and FMs as indicators.
I think maybe allocating for a "Big" farmers market would work... Like number of weekly farmers markets / co ops/ etc... That would be better than Whole Foods at this point. I think Whole Foods/Wild Oats/Fresh Market might have worked 5-10 years ago but they are more commonplace now. Good point on Whole foods and their competition though. Often Whole Foods buys out older stores, sometimes for better, often for the worst though. I have a love/hate relationship with Whole Paycheck. And they often do get my paycheck as I can definitely tell the difference in the produce quality there vs other stores. That is the main thing for me they have high standards. I hate getting a grainy tomato etc. I think there is less of a difference in their meat selection however. Wine / cheese there is definitely overpriced vs competitors. Their bulk and 365 stuff is good, otherwise I stay away from all their packaged goods.
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Old 01-22-2011, 12:26 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,113 posts, read 3,234,415 times
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^^^How do I find that out for each city? Does any human have the time to research that without getting paid to do so? It's easier just to go to a national/almost national grocer's website and see store locations. I mean I don't even know how many farmers' markets and weekly markets there are in my hometown because there are so many all over the place and many are word of mouth. Not every city has a WF, btw. You'd be surprised. It was a very small component in my ranking, almost added for fun. I guess I'm happy that I haven't heard a billion complaints about any other part of the ranking (just counting Whole Foods, LoL).
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Old 01-23-2011, 08:52 AM
 
819 posts, read 1,184,147 times
Reputation: 1022
Quote:
Originally Posted by grapico View Post
cool, I don't doubt the Houston seafood. I prefer the gulf seafood than elsewhere, i.e. grouper, red snapper, oysters, shrimp... they are the best around there.

That list again is 1 NYC 2 Chicago 3 SF

Seems like a definite trend.
Does it really matter if Chicago is ahead? It doesn't diminish what Houston's accomplished.

After all, Chicago still bows down to the Big Apple. Does that diminish what Chi-town offers, regardless of "trends?"

So what if my old Gangster-born statist town is a few points up? It doesn't diminish that "Houston has one of the most satisfying food scenes in the country right now" according to, oops, another NY media source:
9 WAYS TO TASTE HOUSTON (LIKE AN EXPERT) - NYPOST.com
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