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View Poll Results: Miami or Atlanta?
Miami 52 43.70%
Atlanta 59 49.58%
tie 8 6.72%
Voters: 119. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Old 10-16-2011, 12:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
The racial tension debate is silly to me they're talking about white fight, and what happen before a least the 80s.
It's definitely more than "white flight," but I've already explained what I was talking about.
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Old 10-16-2011, 10:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
That doesn't have much to do with the fact that one part of the metro is largely concentrated with one race, though. By and large, Houston is a more integrated city than Atlanta. There's really no way around that fact. Even the slight polarization of blacks and whites (north and south) in Atlanta doesn't exist in Houston.
This. As I was saying, just visit the cities. It's obvious. I wasn't aware of it before I first saw it in person, but then verified the demography on paper and it made sense.
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Old 10-17-2011, 03:01 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,067 posts, read 15,721,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfieldian View Post
Hmmm... FWIW.

I am a big believer that you don't just get the city when you live in a place, it's also about the state (surroundings/gov policies/other cities in state) and where you can go to for quick drives.

Now on paper these places match up fairly well...

but in the REAL WORLD for me...

FL >>>>> GA ... And the areas around Miami, i.e. South&Central FL and the Keys >>>> Northern GA/Alabama/South Carolina...

Atlanta has some interesting amenities for sure, and several things I like better than Miami such as the microbrew scene, better transit, topography and a few museums, but, I just couldn't live there, I'd rather live in some lame suburban area, smaller house and be in South Florida than around Atlanta.

South Florida is far more socially liberal and diverse than anything going on in GA or the rest of the Southeast for that matter, to me it's a HUGE deal, for others not so much, but to each their own I suppose... just wanted to explain my reasoning. Atlanta is a non issue, but driving around Northern Ga, TN, SC, Northern Alabama has been complete culture shock to me. I couldn't see myself living there. West Palm, Tampa, Fort Lauderdale, St. Pete, Sarasota, Orlando, Key Largo, Key West... While certainly not my favorite style cities, I'll take them any day of the week over the region that Atlanta is in.

I also like being near a large body of water, whether that is Boston, Miami, SF or Chicago, just something about it. Atlanta is too landlocked for my taste, I'd start to feel claustrophobic after awhile, I've never lived more than about 20 miles from water, and would prefer to be less than a mile or two, so that's a deal breaker on that alone. Totally subjective but hey, it's what I like and how I relax, go enjoy walks on the beach, run, out on boat/ferry looking back at the city, etc. One of the few outdoor activities I care about.
Its pointless to argue.(Not saying you are,but just disagreeing as a matter of discussion of MY personal taste)These are our opinions.Not facts, but I do disagree.
Miami has been Republican(conservative)for more years than Atlanta.And the North Florida area especially around Tampa and Tallahassee is notoriously racist.Not so much as it has been in the past,but still evident.
Miami?Well we just have to disagree but as I said before,Miami has a history of racial issues that have gone well beyond tension.Not just between blacks and whites.

These are my reason I find Miami less desirable than Atlanta:
I live in Downtown Atlanta about 7 blocks from The Georgia Dome.NOT a suburb.
As far as suburbs go?A suburb is a suburb no matter.But people always think that Atlanta is just composed of Downtown by Underground.Midtown Buckhead and Downtown.That means much more varied architecture.Towers of GLASS.No iconic towers like in Atlanta.
The only thing I can honestly give Miami major props is the Arc Deco District
That said Miami Downtown(city) has nothing on Atlanta city.

I dont care to live around beaches.They are fun to visit but let a Hurricane warning is issued then everyone is clamoring.

I also hate that Florida is flat.So no hiking,No fall foliage,




Atlanta neighborhoods easily rival Miami's.Im not even talking about Buckhead.Neighborhoods in Atlanta like North Druid Hills and Avondale states one of the few and FIRST planned neighborhoods designed by Fredrick Law Olmstead,hilly and leafy green Inman and Candler Park where the streetcar ran through magnificent mansions from the turn of the century,Victorian mansions in Grant park and so many more areas.


History.Miami is a relative new city,It has very little history of importance to the nation compaired Atlanta,In Miami you wont be taking any tours that showcase history that was vital in the National interest .Like the civil war,or civil rights.

Miami has the Keys and Key West Florida and Atlanta has Savannah and the Golden Isles.Both are great but Savannah is just outstanding.Atlantans do have Lakes and a weekend on the Georgia coast is enough to get your legs wet.But Miamis lack of tree cover and hillls/mountains is a big strike for some.No whitewater rafting.No beautiful waterfalls like these just 1hr North.

No camping.No fall foilage.
http://http://annawrites.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/tallulah-look-out-down.jpg (broken link)

Culture wise?OMG!!Miami is like looking at a gorgeous blonde model with no brains.She is beautiful for a while but try an talk to her about important or on a scholarly level and you will be gravely disappointed.
Atlanta has museums like the Michael C Carlos Museum,Margaret Mitchell (author of Gone with the Wind),Martin Luther King Jr,The Wrens Nest etc...
The High Museum is hands down the most prominemnt museum in the Southeast.


As far as whether are not GA or FL is more progressive its kinda a toss up.I would give the edge to GA because Florida ,like California is full of large cities,but its never been a state that sets trends or is known for an overwhelming amount of progressive laws you would expect from a state with so many people.I assume that's because of the seniors that live there.
Once you get above Orlando,Florida is very non progressive.Especially in the Gulf region.

Georgia and Florida are not much different in political leanings.Northern Georgia which is mostly Atlanta and Athens,are equals in that they lean more liberal.You trying to make it like its so different is ridiculous.
Miami has had nothing but Republican mayors BORN in Cuba all Catholic for the last 7 mayors in over 20 years!How is that liberal?For all its "diversity",every election has each group votes for their own.At least in Atlanta's ;last election,the white mayor oral candidate had higher support than her black opponent(Mayor Kaseem Reed) until she started talking like Sarah Palin.Clueless on all the issues sounding like a robot.
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Old 10-17-2011, 03:40 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,067 posts, read 15,721,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Firstly, the term is "peers" and I never used that term. I said they were Atlanta's regional economic competitors. Big difference. And yes, Tampa is a regional economic competitor of Atlanta's. Did you happen to miss this latest one?

No I did not.Not surprised you mention it.That makes it a competitor.NOT a peer.(thanks for correcting me,i did no better but i have brains farts occasionally)


I totally disagree with that last line. And I used to live in Charlotte, so I should know. And don't mistake what we're talking about here. I'm not talking about specific acts of racism, but an underlying regional racial tension.
Racial tension happens everywere when people start loosing jobs.But you guys act like its at a boiling level and it just is NOT.


Charlotte has not annexed to minimize its Black population, so that's not a "problem." It has annexed to enlarge its tax base and control future development. I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say "equal or Majority white and controlled downtown," but if by that you mean political leadership, then that's part of what I'm getting at.

Whether it was on purpose or not,its the equal of if Atlanta annexed its Northern suburbs.It would be much wealthier and the demographics would be very different.although Atlanta suburbs are more diverse and intergrated than Charlotte current city limits and even against Charlotte's suburbs


None of those cities have had a successive string of Black mayors, police chiefs, fire chiefs, school superintendents, etc. since the 70's like Atlanta has. That's what I mean by "longstanding Black political leadership."



I'm pretty sure Houston and Dallas have their issues with the Hispanic population, but again the dynamic is different because those cities don't have longstanding Hispanic political leadership or the cultural institutions that cater to Hispanics like Atlanta has that cater to Blacks.

that still has nothing to do with how racial tensions flair up.You may not know that Atlanta was one of the few major cities that did not errupt in violence when King was shot and not once durring the whole civil rights era.It was the only city that chose to end JIm Crow in the entire South before legislation forced it too.Atlanta's longstanding mantra has been the "City to Busy to Hate" since the 60's.


Man, you have a problem with putting words in people's mouths. Where did I ever use the term "hotbed of racism"? And no, you can't quantify something like racial tension so it's you can't exactly "study" it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You can look at things like the race-related issues that came up in the last mayoral election. Look at how a lot of Whites and other non-Blacks pitch a fit whenever Atlanta is referred to as a Black mecca. Look at how residents of north Fulton County are wanting to re-incorporate Milton County. Race and class drive a good bit of the political debates in the Atlanta region in a way that's just different than in other areas. Even the crap that Atlanta gets from the state is, in part, race based. Most areas will get the typical racial stuff, but it's different in Atlanta because of so many Black faces in high places that doesn't sit well with a lot of people.
I never said you did.That was just a statement as I see it.Not meant to imply you did say it.However some people who know little about the area seem to make that a truth of sorts based on the things that are said when you say words like "racial tension".

Georgia has had statewide elected black officials from former Chief of Supreme Court,Secretary of Labor,and even state Attorney General.Is race a part of the dichotomy?YES.However Atlanta does not run politics in the State of Georgia.
Again different?Maybe so but it does not make it worse because of it.You may hear about it but unless certain actions become manifested from "talking",then I see no problem.I find it far more unacceptable that a populace can be so unequal in opportunity that leads to "racial tensions" than because some people maybe looking for scapegoat because of their own inadequacies.
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Old 10-17-2011, 03:58 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
There aren't blacks in downtown Houston? That has more to do with Atlanta being more accessible, thanks to MARTA. There's a lot of activity catering to the masses in downtown Atlanta versus Houston. Technically, the former is blacker than the latter, but there are more than enough blacks in both. I'm just not one to exaggerate.
That is such an idiotic statement.Blacks and minorities ride public transit nationwide than the "mainstream".However ,downtown is more black because Atlanta like much of the South(Deep South) has ALWAYS been more black.

Downtown Atlanta has many institutions of higher learning that are over 100 years old.It has the Harlem of the South and what was the "wealthiest black street in the world"(Auburn Ave).Also the same place where civil rights movement had its earliest start nationwide.Birthplace of Martin Luther King Jr.

Once again if you look at daytime population downtown versus after 6pm,Atlanta;s downtown by Underground IS more African American.Downtown is NOT just the MARTA station at 5points!!This is how I know people who don't live in the actual city of Atlanta.Or if they do,they live in Midtown or Buckhead and rarely go Downtown.I defy ANY of you to go downtown Atlanta on Marta and walk just 2blocks North on Peachtree from the 5points station and where Marrietta and Peachtree Intersect.Its extremely divers.Mainly due to the 30,000 students at Georgia State University.
Also,black does NOT mean African to many people.Africans overwhelmingly live in Atlanta than Houston.In fact more Nigerians now live in Atlanta than before it was Houston.
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:27 AM
 
Location: The Magnolia City
8,928 posts, read 14,252,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
That is such an idiotic statement.Blacks and minorities ride public transit nationwide than the "mainstream".However ,downtown is more black because Atlanta like much of the South(Deep South) has ALWAYS been more black.

Downtown Atlanta has many institutions of higher learning that are over 100 years old.It has the Harlem of the South and what was the "wealthiest black street in the world"(Auburn Ave).Also the same place where civil rights movement had its earliest start nationwide.Birthplace of Martin Luther King Jr.

Once again if you look at daytime population downtown versus after 6pm,Atlanta;s downtown by Underground IS more African American.Downtown is NOT just the MARTA station at 5points!!This is how I know people who don't live in the actual city of Atlanta.Or if they do,they live in Midtown or Buckhead and rarely go Downtown.I defy ANY of you to go downtown Atlanta on Marta and walk just 2blocks North on Peachtree from the 5points station and where Marrietta and Peachtree Intersect.Its extremely divers.Mainly due to the 30,000 students at Georgia State University.
Also,black does NOT mean African to many people.Africans overwhelmingly live in Atlanta than Houston.In fact more Nigerians now live in Atlanta than before it was Houston.
I used to live in Atlanta. And before you go around insulting people, maybe you should think twice about what they're saying. Maybe I misunderstood Garfieldian's point, but all I was saying is that you will generally see more blacks in downtown Atlanta because there's more activity around DT to attract them than in Houston. Most of the blacks you see around downtown Atlanta do not live in the immediate area and do in fact use MARTA to come from different parts of the city.

I was essentially saying that despite Houston having a black core as well, Atlanta's downtown has more to cater to the masses, when compared to Houston. I was giving your city an edge. It appears that like one of your Atlanta peers, you have as big an issue with reading as you clearly do with typing and spelling.
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Old 10-17-2011, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,067 posts, read 15,721,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
I used to live in Atlanta. And before you go around insulting people, maybe you should think twice about what they're saying. Maybe I misunderstood Garfieldian's point, but all I was saying is that you will generally see more blacks in downtown Atlanta because there's more activity around DT to attract them than in Houston. Most of the blacks you see around downtown Atlanta do not live in the immediate area and do in fact use MARTA to come from different parts of the city.

I was essentially saying that despite Houston having a black core as well, Atlanta's downtown has more to cater to the masses, when compared to Houston. I was giving your city an edge. It appears that like one of your Atlanta peers, you have as big an issue with reading as you clearly do with typing and spelling.

Nice try."Flip flop".I may make spelling errors but I'd rather do that then pretending to be an "intellectual" with small capacity for intellect.
You made a STATEMENT that I said was idiotic.I NEVER insulted YOU.You should take a minute before you accuse me of insulting you.
Like chitatl stated,Atlanta has 70% more blacks.Black people live EVERYWHERE.There are TOO many areas that cater mainly to a black "poorer" demographic than downtown.Wealthier blacks are attracted to downtown just like everyone else.Downtown is Olympic Park,Bank of AMerica Plaza,Castleberry Hill to Turner Feld/Grant Park
Due to many of the low income projects, that were once all around downtown and major Gentrification along with the growing popularity of living downtown today,there are less blacks downtown than even 5 years ago.Atlanta has the fastest growing white population in America.Black population is leaving the city for the suburbs 60% down to 52% in just 7 years.
That should tell you 2 things:Atlanta obviously has a lot more blacks ,so you will see more even as more and more are leaving the city.
Another dumb statement:"Blacks use Marta from other parts of the city to downtown."DUH!!!The central MARTA station where all the trains arrive and people change trains is downtown.EVERY body comes downtown around 5 points.If only 10 percent of Atlanta's total population lives downtown then would it not make sense that because of public transit and blacks generally have a much higher poverty rate then you will see more.

Which brings me to another one of you erroneous statements:The largest single majority of blacks DO live downtown.Unless you mean the 5 points area,which is NOT all of downtown.You would still be wrong because most of that area is retail and business.Georgia State does not even have dorms in that area.Only classrooms and office buildings.

Any way you look at it you are incorrect.So before you go grading papers maybe you should get a big "F" because you FAIL.
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Old 10-17-2011, 12:03 PM
 
Location: The Magnolia City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
Nice try."Flip flop".I may make spelling errors but I'd rather do that then pretending to be an "intellectual" with small capacity for intellect.
You made a STATEMENT that I said was idiotic.I NEVER insulted YOU.You should take a minute before you accuse me of insulting you.
Like chitatl stated,Atlanta has 70% more blacks.Black people live EVERYWHERE.There are TOO many areas that cater mainly to a black "poorer" demographic than downtown.Wealthier blacks are attracted to downtown just like everyone else.Downtown is Olympic Park,Bank of AMerica Plaza,Castleberry Hill to Turner Feld/Grant Park
Due to many of the low income projects, that were once all around downtown and major Gentrification along with the growing popularity of living downtown today,there are less blacks downtown than even 5 years ago.Atlanta has the fastest growing white population in America.Black population is leaving the city for the suburbs 60% down to 52% in just 7 years.
That should tell you 2 things:Atlanta obviously has a lot more blacks ,so you will see more even as more and more are leaving the city.
Another dumb statement:"Blacks use Marta from other parts of the city to downtown."DUH!!!The central MARTA station where all the trains arrive and people change trains is downtown.EVERY body comes downtown around 5 points.If only 10 percent of Atlanta's total population lives downtown then would it not make sense that because of public transit and blacks generally have a much higher poverty rate then you will see more.

Which brings me to another one of you erroneous statements:The largest single majority of blacks DO live downtown.Unless you mean the 5 points area,which is NOT all of downtown.You would still be wrong because most of that area is retail and business.Georgia State does not even have dorms in that area.Only classrooms and office buildings.

Any way you look at it you are incorrect.So before you go grading papers maybe you should get a big "F" because you FAIL.
Calling my statement "idiotic" was a deliberate jab. You know that.

Try looking at it from another perspective: if Houston had the public trans that Atlanta does, and had as much to do downtown (for both the poor and wealthy), you would see more blacks. Hell, you would see more people period. Houston doesn't have an Underground Atlanta or anything similar to attract African Americans to the core. Of course Atlanta is blacker. That's the biggest "duh" comment ever made on CD.

The above is the only point I was trying to make, regardless of what you think I was suggesting.

Do you see what I'm saying now? Do you now understand that it isn't necessary to be so defensive? I'm having a good day so far, in case you can't tell.
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Old 10-18-2011, 07:04 AM
 
Location: At your mama's house
965 posts, read 1,874,612 times
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So some man was shot in the back at a MARTA station by a transit cop. Riots in Oakland and London started due to similar situations:

MARTA: Dead teen was armed *| ajc.com


MARTA: Man killed by officer was armed *| ajc.com


Atlanta tastes Dallas' Dust:

Atlanta tastes Dallas’ dust *| ajc.com

Quote:
The Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex finished the disastrous 2000s with 5 percent more jobs than it started with; metro Atlanta suffered a net loss. On unemployment, DFW never even hit double digits. We’re barely out of them.
Mass transit? The Metroplex now has a four times more miles of transit track than metro Atlanta has.
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
Racial tension happens everywere when people start loosing jobs.But you guys act like its at a boiling level and it just is NOT.
I'm not talking about recently, so the recession isn't a factor here. And I never said anything about a "boiling level." You need to read my words more carefully because I try to be very precise in what I'm conveying, and that's why I said it's an underlying tension.

Quote:
Whether it was on purpose or not,its the equal of if Atlanta annexed its Northern suburbs.It would be much wealthier and the demographics would be very different.although Atlanta suburbs are more diverse and intergrated than Charlotte current city limits and even against Charlotte's suburbs
Actually, Charlotte's more recent annexations are nothing like if Atlanta annexed its wealthier, northern suburbs. The direct correlation to that in Charlotte are the Lake Norman communities in Mecklenburg County to the north of the city: Davidson, Cornelius, and Huntersville, all of which have been incorporated municipalities for well over a century. Charlotte's more recent annexations are areas along the suburban edge that are solidly middle-class--University City, Steele Creek, etc--all areas I'm very familiar with and even have friends and associates who own homes in those areas. At any rate, I'm not even sure why this was brought up because it's not really relevant to the point I'm making.

Quote:
that still has nothing to do with how racial tensions flair up.You may not know that Atlanta was one of the few major cities that did not errupt in violence when King was shot and not once durring the whole civil rights era.It was the only city that chose to end JIm Crow in the entire South before legislation forced it too.Atlanta's longstanding mantra has been the "City to Busy to Hate" since the 60's.
I'm not talking about the Jim Crow era; I'm talking about today. Did I not say that a big reason for the undercurrent of racial tension in Atlanta has to do with the longstanding Black political leadership in the city? Obviously that did not exist during Jim Crow.

Quote:
IGeorgia has had statewide elected black officials from former Chief of Supreme Court,Secretary of Labor,and even state Attorney General.Is race a part of the dichotomy?YES.However Atlanta does not run politics in the State of Georgia.
That much is obvious; otherwise, the state wouldn't consistently shaft the city of Atlanta for reasons that go beyond the normal rural/urban divide found in many states.

Quote:
Again different?Maybe so but it does not make it worse because of it.You may hear about it but unless certain actions become manifested from "talking",then I see no problem.I find it far more unacceptable that a populace can be so unequal in opportunity that leads to "racial tensions" than because some people maybe looking for scapegoat because of their own inadequacies.
Thank you for admitting that the dynamics along the lines of race and class in metro Atlanta are different. I never said it was "worse," but I do feel it is more palpable and extensive in the region. And I certainly disagree that it's not a problem "unless certain actions become manifested from 'talking.'" IMO, it's a big reason why the transportation infrastructure in the metro is inadequate and also negatively affects other political decisions affecting the city in ways that don't play out in other regions to the extent that they play out here.
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