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I'm not talking about recently, so the recession isn't a factor here. And I never said anything about a "boiling level." You need to read my words more carefully because I try to be very precise in what I'm conveying, and that's why I said it's an underlying tension.
Actually, Charlotte's more recent annexations are nothing like if Atlanta annexed its wealthier, northern suburbs. The direct correlation to that in Charlotte are the Lake Norman communities in Mecklenburg County to the north of the city: Davidson, Cornelius, and Huntersville, all of which have been incorporated municipalities for well over a century. Charlotte's more recent annexations are areas along the suburban edge that are solidly middle-class--University City, Steele Creek, etc--all areas I'm very familiar with and even have friends and associates who own homes in those areas. At any rate, I'm not even sure why this was brought up because it's not really relevant to the point I'm making.
I'm not talking about the Jim Crow era; I'm talking about today. Did I not say that a big reason for the undercurrent of racial tension in Atlanta has to do with the longstanding Black political leadership in the city? Obviously that did not exist during Jim Crow.
That much is obvious; otherwise, the state wouldn't consistently shaft the city of Atlanta for reasons that go beyond the normal rural/urban divide found in many states.
Thank you for admitting that the dynamics along the lines of race and class in metro Atlanta are different. I never said it was "worse," but I do feel it is more palpable and extensive in the region. And I certainly disagree that it's not a problem "unless certain actions become manifested from 'talking.'" IMO, it's a big reason why the transportation infrastructure in the metro is inadequate and also negatively affects other political decisions affecting the city in ways that don't play out in other regions to the extent that they play out here.
Those things that hampered transits in Atlanta in the past has not been an issue as far as race is concern in more than 10 years.The problem is more funding now.People in those burbs for the most part want transits now.Why do you think the city of Atlanta has become increasingly more white and less black?
How can the suburbs be as diverse now as the city?
That has been my point.How can it be as you say such a more "extensive" problem yet every measure that is possible to measure such a thing is showing NO signs of what you speak of?
People do talk ,but people listen too.If there was so much dissension then none of these current moving patterns would be accuring as theu currently are.
That has been my point.How can it be as you say such a more "extensive" problem yet every measure that is possible to measure such a thing is showing NO signs of what you speak of?
*sigh* I clearly said I feel it's an issue more extensive in metro Atlanta than in other areas throughout the region. I'm speaking comparatively here like I have throughout this entire thread.
Thankfully, things are very, very slowly changing as far as the perception of mass transit throughout the metro goes, but that's much more of a recent phenomenon, especially as traffic simply continues to get worse and worse and people are desperate for options. But for most of MARTA's history, particularly rail, the popular perception has inevitably been tied to race and that cannot be denied. Again, Atlanta's location in the deep South has indeed played into that as you didn't see this same level of stigmatization in, say, DC, which implemented Metrorail around the same time. Once again, the dynamic in Atlanta is simply different and, IMO, more palpable.
It's definitely more than "white flight," but I've already explained what I was talking about.
The point of me mention white flight that it's nothing unique about Atlanta to other American cities actually. So with saying that more white flight than where? The only counties in metro Atlanta that don't have a sizable black population is Cherokee and Forsyth. Most whites stay in the 5 core counties no different than blacks do.
That has been my point.How can it be as you say such a more "extensive" problem yet every measure that is possible to measure such a thing is showing NO signs of what you speak of?
Also I end my post saying they're arguing about white flight that's before at least the 80s, now rail is being thrown in, well the Marta vote happen also before the 80s. In Atlanta case 3 to 4 million people ago. It's 2011.
Last edited by chiatldal; 10-18-2011 at 05:56 PM..
The point of me mention white flight that it's nothing unique about Atlanta to other American cities actually. So with saying that more white flight than where? The only counties in metro Atlanta that don't have a sizable black population is Cherokee and Forsyth. Most whites stay in the 5 core counties no different than blacks do.
I never said Atlanta has more white flight than other cities. As a matter of fact, I never even used the term "white flight." I can't speak for others, but I was very specific about the things I was referring to when I chimed in on the underlying racial tension that exists in metro Atlanta.
Those are nice, but none of them apply--at least to the several points that I brought up.
Atlanta has many things going for it and I'll be the first to defend the city when unfairly attacked (like earlier in the thread when someone said the only people moving here are wannabe rappers and strippers), but I have no problem talking about the issues and problems that exist also. Certain people act as if you're not saying the city is Utopia then you're saying that it's the 8th level of hell. Can we please find some balance???
I never said Atlanta has more white flight than other cities. As a matter of fact, I never even used the term "white flight." I can't speak for others, but I was very specific about the things I was referring to when I chimed in on the underlying racial tension that exists in metro Atlanta.
Another poster brought up Atlanta is sprawling because of the issue... where's the proof of that? But don't even worry about it.
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Those are nice, but none of them apply--at least to the several points that I brought up.
Atlanta has many things going for it and I'll be the first to defend the city when unfairly attacked (like earlier in the thread when someone said the only people moving here are wannabe rappers and strippers), but I have no problem talking about the issues and problems that exist also. Certain people act as if you're not saying the city is Utopia then you're saying that it's the 8th level of hell. Can we please find some balance???
That's a balance? underlying racial tension? No, Atlanta isn't perfect and there are many issues, but a underlying racial tension is not one of them. Atlanta has no more or no less racists then other metros.
I want to know where is this comming from that there's more of a extensive underlying racial tension in metro Atlanta then other metros where?
Cherry picking... there's no reson for Atlanta to be even mention or single out on this topic.
Argument from ignorance, nothing has been said for Atlanta to be mention or single out on this topic.
I'm entitled to my opinion, a thought with no proof is being restated.
Some things that were brought up was Atlanta is popular to Blacks and Atlanta has a long line of Black leaders, in which cause a reaction. That's not proof, that only brings more questions to be ask. Now where's the proof of those statements and that they're more extensive in ATL then other metros.
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Thankfully, things are very, very slowly changing as far as the perception of mass transit throughout the metro goes, but that's much more of a recent phenomenon, especially as traffic simply continues to get worse and worse and people are desperate for options. But for most of MARTA's history, particularly rail, the popular perception has inevitably been tied to race and that cannot be denied. Again, Atlanta's location in the deep South has indeed played into that as you didn't see this same level of stigmatization in, say, DC, which implemented Metrorail around the same time. Once again, the dynamic in Atlanta is simply different and, IMO, more palpable.
The only thing I can think of that might had a racial undertone is the 1968 referendum to fund MARTA vote failed in 3 county, but again that was 1968. People around Atlanta in 2011 do not have the same perspective as in 1968. To say Atlanta has a history of racism before 1970s is not the same thing as saying there's underlying racial tension that exists in metro Atlanta in 2011. My thing is what in 2011 would make you feel there's something particular to point out about Atlanta from any other metro.
It's like me saying something random like Germany has underlying racial tensions, and I said it's because WWII and gave nothing outside of that.
*sigh* I clearly said I feel it's an issue more extensive in metro Atlanta than in other areas throughout the region. I'm speaking comparatively here like I have throughout this entire thread.
Thankfully, things are very, very slowly changing as far as the perception of mass transit throughout the metro goes, but that's much more of a recent phenomenon, especially as traffic simply continues to get worse and worse and people are desperate for options. But for most of MARTA's history, particularly rail, the popular perception has inevitably been tied to race and that cannot be denied. Again, Atlanta's location in the deep South has indeed played into that as you didn't see this same level of stigmatization in, say, DC, which implemented Metrorail around the same time. Once again, the dynamic in Atlanta is simply different and, IMO, more palpable.
Look you cant have it both ways!!Either these expressions of racial dissent do manifest in noticeable and actual discord or it does not.You are waffeling bad.
You seem to forget that D.C. has a longer standard of black leadership as Atlanta.D.C and Atlanta are the ONLY 2 major cities to have experienced growth of white residents in the core than any place.
You ask most black people how they feel about hanging out in Adams Morgan or Georgetown.Or ask a white person what they think about Prince Georges County(the wealthiest predominately black county in the country)
Another poster brought up Atlanta is sprawling because of the issue... where's the proof of that? But don't even worry about it.
That's a balance? underlying racial tension? No, Atlanta isn't perfect and there are many issues, but a underlying racial tension is not one of them. Atlanta has no more or no less racists then other metros.
I want to know where is this comming from that there's more of a extensive underlying racial tension in metro Atlanta then other metros where?
Cherry picking... there's no reson for Atlanta to be even mention or single out on this topic.
Argument from ignorance, nothing has been said for Atlanta to be mention or single out on this topic.
I'm entitled to my opinion, a thought with no proof is being restated.
Some things that were brought up was Atlanta is popular to Blacks and Atlanta has a long line of Black leaders, in which cause a reaction. That's not proof, that only brings more questions to be ask. Now where's the proof of those statements and that they're more extensive in ATL then other metros.
The only thing I can think of that might had a racial undertone is the 1968 referendum to fund MARTA vote failed in 3 county, but again that was 1968. People around Atlanta in 2011 do not have the same perspective as in 1968. To say Atlanta has a history of racism before 1970s is not the same thing as saying there's underlying racial tension that exists in metro Atlanta in 2011. My thing is what in 2011 would make you feel there's something particular to point out about Atlanta from any other metro.
It's like me saying something random like Germany has underlying racial tensions, and I said it's because WWII and gave nothing outside of that.
That's a balance? underlying racial tension? No, Atlanta isn't perfect and there are many issues, but a underlying racial tension is not one of them. Atlanta has no more or no less racists then other metros.
Yes, that does represent a balance: some good things here, some not-so-good things here. An underlying racial tension that's different and a bit more palpable here, IMO, is a not-so-good thing.
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I want to know where is this comming from that there's more of a extensive underlying racial tension in metro Atlanta then other metros where?
Cherry picking... there's no reson for Atlanta to be even mention or single out on this topic.
Argument from ignorance, nothing has been said for Atlanta to be mention or single out on this topic.
I'm entitled to my opinion, a thought with no proof is being restated.
Some things that were brought up was Atlanta is popular to Blacks and Atlanta has a long line of Black leaders, in which cause a reaction. That's not proof, that only brings more questions to be ask. Now where's the proof of those statements and that they're more extensive in ATL then other metros.
The only thing I can think of that might had a racial undertone is the 1968 referendum to fund MARTA vote failed in 3 county, but again that was 1968. People around Atlanta in 2011 do not have the same perspective as in 1968. To say Atlanta has a history of racism before 1970s is not the same thing as saying there's underlying racial tension that exists in metro Atlanta in 2011. My thing is what in 2011 would make you feel there's something particular to point out about Atlanta from any other metro.
It's like me saying something random like Germany has underlying racial tensions, and I said it's because WWII and gave nothing outside of that.
Obviously you've not read my previous posts where I gave a couple of examples. A notable one was all of the racial (notice I said racial, NOT racist) hoopla surrounding the last mayoral election. Another one concerns the proposal to re-incorporate Milton County. Face it, a lot of criticism that Atlanta faces is based in race, whether warranted or not. Truth be told, that's expected in a city/metro with as heavy a Black presence as Atlanta.
Look you cant have it both ways!!Either these expressions of racial dissent do manifest in noticeable and actual discord or it does not.You are waffeling bad.
One of these days, you are going to learn to stop misquoting me. All you seem to do is set up strawmen, knock them down, and then proclaim victory. It's getting old man.
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You seem to forget that D.C. has a longer standard of black leadership as Atlanta.D.C and Atlanta are the ONLY 2 major cities to have experienced growth of white residents in the core than any place.
Atlanta and DC have roughly the same sort of longstanding Black leadership, and the contrast between the two cities in terms of the historical perception of mass transit, particularly rail, that I was making appears to be lost on you. I guess you didn't understand what I was saying.
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You ask most black people how they feel about hanging out in Adams Morgan or Georgetown.Or ask a white person what they think about Prince Georges County(the wealthiest predominately black county in the country)
That has nothing to do with the point I was making in bringing up DC.
Atlanta and DC have roughly the same sort of longstanding Black leadership, and the contrast between the two cities in terms of the historical perception of mass transit, particularly rail, that I was making appears to be lost on you. I guess you didn't understand what I was saying.
This why I said, The only thing I can think of that might had a racial undertone is the 1968 referendum to fund MARTA vote failed in 3 county, but again that was 1968. People around Atlanta in 2011 do not have the same perspective as in 1968. To say Atlanta has a history of racism before 1970s is not the same thing as saying there's underlying racial tension that exists in metro Atlanta in 2011. History of racial tension and having racial tension in 2011 is not the same thing.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
Yes, that does represent a balance: some good things here, some not-so-good things here. An underlying racial tension that's different and a bit more palpable here, IMO, is a not-so-good thing. [
You can't even play that card, I said Atlanta has many problems and issues, I telling you there are things Atlanta needs to work on. Transportation infrastructure, balkanization among the counties and cities, more planned growth.
"racial tension" is random and not of one them, So you can't play that card Oh "Certain people act as if you're not saying the city is Utopia then you're saying that it's the 8th level of hell. Can we please find some balance???" Because without racial tension doesn't makes Atlanta a utopia, but how ever stating Atlanta does makes a 8th level of hell in book, I wouldn't even want to stay here if that was true.
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Obviously you've not read my previous posts where I gave a couple of examples. A notable one was all of the racial (notice I said racial, NOT racist) hoopla surrounding the last mayoral election. Another one concerns the proposal to re-incorporate Milton County. Face it, a lot of criticism that Atlanta faces is based in race, whether warranted or not. Truth be told, that's expected in a city/metro with as heavy a Black presence as Atlanta.
Again your not giving a explanation your just stating stuff.
example
"hoopla surrounding the last mayoral election"
If you mean there was racial tension in the last election, you don't know much about politics, I'm asking what is unique about Atlanta that you can point out racial tension. Anything that you can state is going to be part of left vs right politics apart of a broader issue across America. Blacks tend to vote democrat unless there's a white democrat the chances of white mayor in Atlanta is low. unless you come out with A. a city in which southern whites after the 70s vote majority for a Democratic or B. a city in which blacks in anywhere in the US vote majority republican. You really don't have nothing unique to say about Atlanta in this case.
example 2
re-incorporate Milton County non Fulton county is heavily wealthier and republican, south Fulton and the city of Atlanta, is democrat and middle to lower class. Again this another political issue, a lot of the taxes from North Fulton go to the other parts of the county. This is another Democratic vs republican issue.
If you ever seem Fox news, heard rush speak, or heard anything about the tea partly, you notice that race pop up time to time, this is generally in American politics this doesn't began nor end with Atlanta, and it's not even worth mentioning the city name. That blank happen in Atlanta well blank happens generally in American politics. So Again your not giving a explanation your just stating stuff. For you to gain ground you need to not only post a "recent" pattern in Atlanta but somethings that not common in America general.
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That has nothing to do with the point I was making in bringing up DC.
