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I am not sure how much land area the NYC-Philly region covers, but the Kanto region which includes Tokyo and seven other prefectures has over 42 million people in 12,518 square mi or 3359 people/sq mile, as of 2009.
In comparison, the current 23-county tri-state NYC CSA (not including Philly CSA), as of 2009, has 22,232,494 people over 11,842 sq mi.
Not even close in my book.
In terms of.......?
Third world living conditions? If so, I would agree.
Okay...cobbling together the absolute growth number from a Raleigh news website added to the 2000 Census, it appears that Raleigh is 403,892. I'll add it above to the list. Watch out Omaha! You're next to be jumped.
Actually our city leaders are disputing the numbers because the bureau may have used Omaha's city boundaries from 2000. Omaha, unlike most cities, has the power to forcibly annex any city under 10,000 people within Douglas county.
It wasn't always that way. The city's future was once very promising. It wasn't founded until 1871, but from 1880 to 1960 their population boomed like crazy (for Southern standards at the time) going from 3000 residents to almost half a million in 1960.
This was all due to the fact that Birmingham did not exist during the Civil War, so it had nothing to rebuild from. Instead of having an economy based on Old South agriculture, they had one based on New South industry and became the steel and manufacturing capital of the South.
Thanks to having large deposits of iron ore, coal and limestone nearby (the only city in the world with all three such deposits in the same local area) the city was able to elevate itself into the upper strata of industrial cities of the early 20th century competing directly with Pittsburgh and Cleveland in prominence of their industries. They also were a major rail hub and competed directly with Atlanta for freight and passenger traffic.
With all of this wealth being generated by these industries, the city took time out to layout grand neighborhoods and even commissioned the Olmstead Brothers to build a park system for them (it was never created however). Things were looking bright for the "Magic City" and for a while they were on the same trajectory as Atlanta or Houston or any other modern day big Southern city to being a major American city.
Then, all of a sudden, the city began to drink the stupid juice.
Stupid mistake #1
In the 1950s, the Federal government wanted to fund the construction of an International airport in the Southeast. The bid was between Atlanta and Birmingham, but the Feds decided on Birmingham due to it's more central location to the region. Birmingham declined the money and Atlanta accepted them in their place. We know how that all turned out....
Stupid mistake #2
In the 1950s at the height of the Civil Rights movement, the political machine of Birmingham refused to move away from segregation and had the blessing of the public at large (well, the White public at large) and of the company heads of the city's industrial corporations.
It resulted in Birmingham being ground zero in the fight against segregation and the fight against anti-segregationists. All the while it was being played out on TV.
White supremacist terrorist groups bombed the homes of the leaders of Civil Rights movement in the area, and most infamously, bombed a church on 16th street in Birmingham that killed four little girls on their way to choir practice:
At the same time, the police were attacking protesters (who were mainly high school age children who just wanted to have equal rights) with dogs and water hoses:
All the while this was being condoned and having a blind eye turned to by their "Commissioner of Public Safety": The world famous idiot and racist Bull Connor.
This had the effect of everyone associating the worst aspects of the segregationists and the white supremacist terrorists with Birmingham. Even though they were far from the only city guilty of the same thing, their actions and unwillingness to change became enshrined in American culture and was transmitted around the country on TV.
Now this is more than enough to explain why Birmingham is not a major city today, but it only set the stage for the nail to be driven into the coffin.
Bad luck and bad timing
Having watched all the carnage in Birmingham unfold, major companies that were eager to invest and have a presence in the Southeast completely ignored Birmingham for fear of the PR and the sure to follow lawsuits over work practices related to race.
Instead companies made Atlanta (and eventually Charlotte) their number #1 relocation and expansion destination in the Southeast because it was all the things Birmingham was not perception wise. We didn't have the riots, or the dogs or any of the other nonsense that went on in Birmingham outside a few isolated incidents. If the opposite had been true and Birmingham desegregated just as peacefully as Atlanta did, I am certain that companies from other regions would have likely split evenly between the two.
So with no new industries investing in Birmingham, they were left to rely on their bread and butter: steel, coal mining and manufacturing. Unless you were living under a rock, no doubt you noticed that the Rustbelt started to decline in the 1960s onward and Birmingham suffered the exact same fate.
Steel plants and factories closed up unable to compete with markets in the developing world. When the jobs dried up, the people started to leave. Birmingham has lost nearly 40% of their peak population going from 340,000 in 1960 residents to 212,000 in 2010. Population loss like this is under heard of anywhere outside of the Rustbelt and for good reason since Birmingham at it's height owed it's success to the same factors the Rustbelt cities did.
As their star status fell the city stagnated and suffered under a declining tax base, rising crime, and inept city leadership that pretty much failed to do anything about this for three decades. It became filled with urban blight and I don't even think there has been a tall building built there since the 1970s.
It seems though that lately the city leadership finally came around to the idea that they needed to do something to change things, but I think they are too far gone to do any more than make themselves a nice medium sized city. Unless there is some sort of miracle, Birmingham can count out being considered a major American city anytime soon.
Back the post I quoted, Atlanta is far from being Birmingham's enemy. Hell, we owe at least 30% of our success in the last half century to the mistakes and eff-ups of Birmingham. So cheers to them.
Instead, they aren't a major city today because they failed to change and failed to capitalize on big opportunities. This happens all the time with cities (though, it is unusual to have it to this level) and it's just the way things roll. It can happen all of a sudden too even when all indications prior to it occurring said other wise. Just ask Detroit or St. Louis.
I always heard stories about the international airport, but I didnt know what actually went down. To turn something like that down was sheer stupidity at its best, and people here currently whine and cry about having to go to the ATL to fly. Oh and BTW the last tall building built here was around 1990.
Actually our city leaders are disputing the numbers because the bureau may have used Omaha's city boundaries from 2000. Omaha, unlike most cities, has the power to forcibly annex any city under 10,000 people within Douglas county.
I don't think it's going to matter in the long run. Raleigh is simply growing too fast to not pass Omaha and others this decade.
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAC NY
In terms of.......?
Third world living conditions? If so, I would agree.
What you say isn't a stretch from becoming a reality.
Japan's economy has been stagnant from the early 1990's and is now in a periodical forth of decline assuming from this global recession. By 2060, its estimates Japan's population will fall to half of what it is now and the standard of living is exponentially depreciating there.
I wish for the best for everyone, but this is underway and there is very little that can be done to reverse this at this point.
It wasn't always that way. The city's future was once very promising. It wasn't founded until 1871, but from 1880 to 1960 their population boomed like crazy (for Southern standards at the time) going from 3000 residents to almost half a million in 1960.
This was all due to the fact that Birmingham did not exist during the Civil War, so it had nothing to rebuild from. Instead of having an economy based on Old South agriculture, they had one based on New South industry and became the steel and manufacturing capital of the South.
Thanks to having large deposits of iron ore, coal and limestone nearby (the only city in the world with all three such deposits in the same local area) the city was able to elevate itself into the upper strata of industrial cities of the early 20th century competing directly with Pittsburgh and Cleveland in prominence of their industries. They also were a major rail hub and competed directly with Atlanta for freight and passenger traffic.
With all of this wealth being generated by these industries, the city took time out to layout grand neighborhoods and even commissioned the Olmstead Brothers to build a park system for them (it was never created however). Things were looking bright for the "Magic City" and for a while they were on the same trajectory as Atlanta or Houston or any other modern day big Southern city to being a major American city.
Then, all of a sudden, the city began to drink the stupid juice.
Stupid mistake #1
In the 1950s, the Federal government wanted to fund the construction of an International airport in the Southeast. The bid was between Atlanta and Birmingham, but the Feds decided on Birmingham due to it's more central location to the region. Birmingham declined the money and Atlanta accepted them in their place. We know how that all turned out....
Stupid mistake #2
In the 1950s at the height of the Civil Rights movement, the political machine of Birmingham refused to move away from segregation and had the blessing of the public at large (well, the White public at large) and of the company heads of the city's industrial corporations.
It resulted in Birmingham being ground zero in the fight against segregation and the fight against anti-segregationists. All the while it was being played out on TV.
White supremacist terrorist groups bombed the homes of the leaders of Civil Rights movement in the area, and most infamously, bombed a church on 16th street in Birmingham that killed four little girls on their way to choir practice:
At the same time, the police were attacking protesters (who were mainly high school age children who just wanted to have equal rights) with dogs and water hoses:
All the while this was being condoned and having a blind eye turned to by their "Commissioner of Public Safety": The world famous idiot and racist Bull Connor.
This had the effect of everyone associating the worst aspects of the segregationists and the white supremacist terrorists with Birmingham. Even though they were far from the only city guilty of the same thing, their actions and unwillingness to change became enshrined in American culture and was transmitted around the country on TV.
Now this is more than enough to explain why Birmingham is not a major city today, but it only set the stage for the nail to be driven into the coffin.
Bad luck and bad timing
Having watched all the carnage in Birmingham unfold, major companies that were eager to invest and have a presence in the Southeast completely ignored Birmingham for fear of the PR and the sure to follow lawsuits over work practices related to race.
Instead companies made Atlanta (and eventually Charlotte) their number #1 relocation and expansion destination in the Southeast because it was all the things Birmingham was not perception wise. We didn't have the riots, or the dogs or any of the other nonsense that went on in Birmingham outside a few isolated incidents. If the opposite had been true and Birmingham desegregated just as peacefully as Atlanta did, I am certain that companies from other regions would have likely split evenly between the two.
So with no new industries investing in Birmingham, they were left to rely on their bread and butter: steel, coal mining and manufacturing. Unless you were living under a rock, no doubt you noticed that the Rustbelt started to decline in the 1960s onward and Birmingham suffered the exact same fate.
Steel plants and factories closed up unable to compete with markets in the developing world. When the jobs dried up, the people started to leave. Birmingham has lost nearly 40% of their peak population going from 340,000 in 1960 residents to 212,000 in 2010. Population loss like this is under heard of anywhere outside of the Rustbelt and for good reason since Birmingham at it's height owed it's success to the same factors the Rustbelt cities did.
As their star status fell the city stagnated and suffered under a declining tax base, rising crime, and inept city leadership that pretty much failed to do anything about this for three decades. It became filled with urban blight and I don't even think there has been a tall building built there since the 1970s.
It seems though that lately the city leadership finally came around to the idea that they needed to do something to change things, but I think they are too far gone to do any more than make themselves a nice medium sized city. Unless there is some sort of miracle, Birmingham can count out being considered a major American city anytime soon.
Back the post I quoted, Atlanta is far from being Birmingham's enemy. Hell, we owe at least 30% of our success in the last half century to the mistakes and eff-ups of Birmingham. So cheers to them.
Instead, they aren't a major city today because they failed to change and failed to capitalize on big opportunities. This happens all the time with cities (though, it is unusual to have it to this level) and it's just the way things roll. It can happen all of a sudden too even when all indications prior to it occurring said other wise. Just ask Detroit or St. Louis.
This is definitely a great summary of the "New South." It's a sad shame that Birmingham didn't take advantage of this. However, hindsight is always 20/20. But Birmingham's demise in 1950s was Atlanta's rise. Could you imagine Birmingham as modern day Atlanta? Charlotte also followed in Atlanta's footsteps. What most people don't know, a major Supreme Court case that changed the way busing is in most school districts in the US happend in Charlotte. I think it's Swann vs Board of Education.
I always heard stories about the international airport, but I didnt know what actually went down. To turn something like that down was sheer stupidity at its best, and people here currently whine and cry about having to go to the ATL to fly. Oh and BTW the last tall building built here was around 1990.
We don't learn from our mistakes. Florida's new governor, Rick Scott (actually makes me sick to my stomach to actually say that) turned down Federal high speed rail money to connect Tampa and Orlando. Let's see how that plays out. I suspect it's going to be seen as a Birmingham type mistake in the future.
What you say isn't a stretch from becoming a reality.
Japan's economy has been stagnant from the early 1990's and is now in a periodical forth of decline assuming from this global recession. By 2060, its estimates Japan's population will fall to half of what it is now and the standard of living is exponentially depreciating there.
I wish for the best for everyone, but this is underway and there is very little that can be done to reverse this at this point.
It's true, the outnumbered youth in the population won't be able to support the older generation and keep the economy going strong the way things are now. But I'm hoping they and all of us figure something out, I can't imagine the world standing by and watching a developed nation just fail for the first time ever. European countries are gonna be in almost the same boat but they wanna keep their numbers up through immigration but then that leads to other problems. The US is avoiding the same population decline problem through immigration but even so, wasn't this census our lowest growth ever? It's a really tough road ahead of the world, or the "developed" world anyway.
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