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Old 02-25-2011, 04:06 PM
 
Location: NYC
457 posts, read 1,103,545 times
Reputation: 493

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
NOMA is buildings 8,000 apartment/condo units alone lol. Mount Vernon just finished 5 towers with 4 more under construction. City Center breaks ground this spring. This is just to name a few projects. D.C. is predicted to grow from 601,000+ in 2010 to 651,000+ by 2015 and almost all the growth is downtown. You should check out DC Mud. Or near southeast. Almost all stalled projects right now will be done by 2015-2016. Don't forget area's that aren't in NOMA that break ground soon like the Sursum Cordas projects redevelopment and 6 vacant lots around it all slated for residential towers.

You exagerating the pace of change in DC.

DC grew roughly 3,000 people/yr over the last 10 years. To make the 651,000 projection DC would need the growth rate to tripple for 5 years? Possible, but not likely.

Statement:
NOMA is buildings 8,000 apartment/condo units alone lol.

Fact:
NOMA has complete 1,223 units in the past 3-4 years.
It currently has 1 building with 469 units U/C.
At least one 300 unit building is hoping to break ground this year. A couple more will almost certainly happen in the next 5 year years.

All in all, very impressive. But, not 8,000 units by 2016.

Yes, 7,837 more units are eventually planned over the long term (15 years or so). But, many are little more that empty lots with aspirations to eventually add housing. Not shovel ready plans just waiting for financing.

Source: DEVELOPMENT
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Old 02-25-2011, 04:13 PM
 
5,347 posts, read 10,103,386 times
Reputation: 2446
Hey MD,

I have been to CC 1000's of times and yes it is tiny. You can't compare it with DC or Chicago or NYC. I see they are adding outer neighborhoods to the fight. We can add Dupont Circle because it's basically, DT DC. What about Foggy Bottom? That's DT DC.
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Old 02-25-2011, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C.
13,674 posts, read 15,571,761 times
Reputation: 4054
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caymon83 View Post
You exagerating the pace of change in DC.

DC grew roughly 3,000 people/yr over the last 10 years. To make the 651,000 projection DC would need the growth rate to tripple for 5 years? Possible, but not likely.

Statement:
NOMA is buildings 8,000 apartment/condo units alone lol.

Fact:
NOMA has complete 1,223 units in the past 3-4 years.
It currently has 1 building with 469 units U/C.
At least one 300 unit building is hoping to break ground this year. A couple more will almost certainly happen in the next 5 year years.

All in all, very impressive. But, not 8,000 units by 2016.

Yes, 7,837 more units are eventually planned over the long term (15 years or so). But, many of these plans being little more that empty lots with aspirations to eventually add housing down the road. Not shovel ready plans just waiting for financing.

Source: DEVELOPMENT

How soon people forget 2003-2009 in D.C. Before the market crashed D.C. was absolutely booming till everything came to a screeching halt. Now many projects are moving again so I guess we will just have to wait and see. D.C. will be building like 2005 very soon. If you don't think so, you are in for a rude awakening.


D.C. population as of November 2010 and projections with most moving into new SW downtown:

2010 = 605,500
2015 = 651,500
2020 = 669,800
2025 = 693,800
2030 = 711,900
2035 = 730,400
2040 = 760,500

http://www.mwcog.org/uploads/pub-doc...0120090230.pdf


If you don't like it, write an email, send a letter, whatever makes you feel better. Don't shoot the messenger. Also, keep in mind we are one of the only metro area's that lived up to and surpassed the census hype. D.C. isn't going anywhere.
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Old 02-25-2011, 04:24 PM
 
Location: The City
22,379 posts, read 38,665,395 times
Reputation: 7974
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC's Finest View Post
Hey MD,

I have been to CC 1000's of times and yes it is tiny. You can't compare it with DC or Chicago or NYC. I see they are adding outer neighborhoods to the fight. We can add Dupont Circle because it's basically, DT DC. What about Foggy Bottom? That's DT DC.

I discussed not one aspect in the comparsion that is not in Center City, all 1.7 sq miles of it
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Old 02-25-2011, 04:29 PM
 
Location: The City
22,379 posts, read 38,665,395 times
Reputation: 7974
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
How soon people forget 2003-2009 in D.C. Before the market crashed D.C. was absolutely booming till everything came to a screeching halt. Now many projects are moving again so I guess we will just have to wait and see. D.C. will be building like 2005 very soon. If you don't think so, you are in for a rude awakening.


D.C. population as of November 2010 and projections with most moving into new SW downtown:

2010 = 605,500
2015 = 651,500
2020 = 669,800
2025 = 693,800
2030 = 711,900
2035 = 730,400
2040 = 760,500

http://www.mwcog.org/uploads/pub-doc...0120090230.pdf


If you don't like it, write an email, send a letter, whatever makes you feel better. Don't shoot the messenger. Also, keep in mind we are one of the only metro area's that lived up to and surpassed the census hype. D.C. isn't going anywhere.
so in ten years, 350K are moving into the DC DT, while the whole city will only grow by 60K - Allstar you really need to check your math and your assertions, seriously
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Old 02-25-2011, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C.
13,674 posts, read 15,571,761 times
Reputation: 4054
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Yes that is Jefferson's Hospital Campus - this is only a 5 minute walk to work if you work at city hall

Georgtown is absolutely unwalkable to the core in anywhere near that amount of time, I could include UCity much closer or Temple in North Philly which is equally building developed

I lived in Shaw and is much further away than what you are showing, Philly's downtown is totally mixed use from building to building and many on one block - they are just constructed completely different

on the second Cherry St, again a mostly residential little few block enclave, and Cherry is mid block small street

Here is a block that is 5 blocks from city hall but a side street off of a side street off of a side street - this is something you never see in DC. To me actually adds to fabric but we will agree to disagree on this

camac street philadelphia - Google Maps


or you can have more of this

dc - Google Maps


That wouldn't be considered downtown though. How can a row house be in a downtown CBD? Come on Kidphilly, you know exactly what 'm talking about. Show me a row house in NYC three streets from the empire state building.

I would never consider this part of D.C. downtown. Far from it actually.

d.c. - Google Maps

d.c. - Google Maps
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Old 02-25-2011, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C.
13,674 posts, read 15,571,761 times
Reputation: 4054
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
so in ten years, 350K are moving into the DC DT, while the whole city will only grow by 60K - Allstar you really need to check your math and your assertions, seriously
Ummmm....who said anything about 350,000 people? You mean 69,000 people I guess. Check the new growth map on the website. They are the ones that show where the growth is. It's all around NOMA, SW D.C. and downtown D.C. area neighborhoods. Thomas Circle, Dupont, Golden triangle etc.
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Old 02-25-2011, 04:52 PM
 
Location: The City
22,379 posts, read 38,665,395 times
Reputation: 7974
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
That wouldn't be considered downtown though. How can a row house be in a downtown CBD? Come on Kidphilly, you know exactly what 'm talking about. Show me a row house in NYC three streets from the empire state building.

I would never consider this part of D.C. downtown. Far from it actually.

d.c. - Google Maps

d.c. - Google Maps

well there are 20+ story buildings within a 100 ft of that location, That particular area is circled by Walk up 5-8 story Brownstones on 12th, 11th, Locust, and Spruce (Almost exactly like what is found (Brownstones) in NYC and their DT and in the middle are these very old streets). Also look to NYC, a far better job on mixed and architectually interesting diversity, another thing lacking in DC's DT. To you a DT is purely office space, Philly may be the most mixed use intertwined in the country - these streets have actually been preserved so they are staying, a good thing in my book

Honestly DC would benefit from more variety and less sterile development IMHO but again you may disagree

First NYC (I did have to go 4 blocks from the ESB)

nyc - Google Maps

Then Philly (not exact but you will get my drift) These are what encircle those small rowhouse streets in the middle of the main block from the earlier link

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...,0.021887&z=16


toggle back and forth, remarkably similar actually they basically could be opposite sides of the same block/street...

Last edited by kidphilly; 02-25-2011 at 05:23 PM..
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Old 02-25-2011, 04:54 PM
 
Location: The City
22,379 posts, read 38,665,395 times
Reputation: 7974
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
Ummmm....who said anything about 350,000 people? You mean 69,000 people I guess. Check the new growth map on the website. They are the ones that show where the growth is. It's all around NOMA, SW D.C. and downtown D.C. area neighborhoods. Thomas Circle, Dupont, Golden triangle etc.

you stated the Downtown will be at 400K about 1 or 2 pages ago in this thread, in 2000 it was at 27K just for reference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
D.C. would have to have 400,000 people living downtown to equal the population density of center city because center city is so tiny at 25% of D.C.'s downtown. When the new downtown is done south of the mall, center city will be 10% the size of downtown D.C. Downtown D.C. would have to have a population of 800,000 to equal the population density of center city. I would rather have an enormous downtown with multiple booming area's than a 5 block radius downtown for a whole city but that is just my preference. Manhattan has a ton of dead area's and so does D.C. It is very common in downtown's the size of D.C. and Manhattan. That is why we have multiple 3 block radius entertainment centers in multiple places downtown.
EDIT: Actually my bad, I misread the earlier post, thought I read as will have for some reason
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:06 PM
 
Location: In the heights
36,881 posts, read 38,781,820 times
Reputation: 20894
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
That wouldn't be considered downtown though. How can a row house be in a downtown CBD? Come on Kidphilly, you know exactly what 'm talking about. Show me a row house in NYC three streets from the empire state building.

I would never consider this part of D.C. downtown. Far from it actually.

d.c. - Google Maps

d.c. - Google Maps
Why can't a rowhouse be in a downtown CBD? The financial district on Manhattan has a few scattered here and there.

I guess if we made a criteria strictly catered to how downtown DC is built, then yea, DC would probably have an advantage.

However, the last time I went around DC (this past summer) and Philadelphia (this past summer as well), I definitely got a greater sense of vibrancy in Philly and felt that it was far more compact, dense, and lively. The difference seemed pretty drastic to me much of the time, so I don't see how downtown DC would really beat out Center City overall for a good long while.
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