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View Poll Results: Which one is the most important?
Bay Area 291 57.97%
Boston 92 18.33%
Philadelphia 98 19.52%
Confused 21 4.18%
Voters: 502. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-05-2011, 11:30 AM
 
Location: roaming gnome
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
Well most rankings disagree hence Boston is rarely above San Francisco, but we are all entitled to our opinions.


Its the least arbitrary, least subjective measure out there. That's how the world's economies are ranked and I dont know how saying economies are sporadic is different for cities than it is countries.

But I can say that the Bay Area is smaller than Boston but has a FAR LARGER economy. That is no small and dismissable issue.

In fact Im surprised that Philadelphia has a higher Per Capita GDP than Boston as well.

2009(Latest Data Available)
4. San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA CSA $535.327 Billion
6. Boston-Worcester-Manchester, MA-RI-NH CSA $411.505 Billion
9. Philadelphia-Camden-Vineland, PA-NJ-DE-MD CSA $354.573 Billion

Per Capita Annual Economic Output(GDP)
San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA CSA $72,078
Philadelphia-Camden-Vineland, PA-NJ-DE-MD CSA $54,274
Boston-Worcester-Manchester, MA-RI-NH CSA $54,080
It is also the most volatile and subject to fast change over time. Those rankings are basing it on specific measures, I am basing it within the confines of only Boston, SF, Philadelphia in the ballgame in a U.S. context. The rankings would change once other countries and cities are in play. For a micro look at how this is more in effect, just look at somewhere like Charlotte.
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Old 03-05-2011, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
10,171 posts, read 12,508,092 times
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Honestly I don't think there is a way to quantify say Education is far above Tech, which is far above Medical Services, which is far above Energy, which is far above Finance, and so on and so forth. There is no way to do that, all those industries play an equal role in the integration of the American economy. There isn't anyway a person with a straight face can point and choose any of those are being significantly more prominent than the others, in my opinion.

This in general is a close comparison and without taking history into account I do firmly believe that the Bay Area does have a lead over the other two, but it is by no means a landslide at all. The fact that Boston can outrank Los Angeles or Chicago in certain aspects says enough that each of these cities (along with some not mentioned in this thread) have a specialty that is hard to quantify into better or worse.

It was extremely close between Boston & Philadelphia, and I'm still not entirely sure which one is more important but its really close so I'll be paying attention to what others have to say. Even if its about history, I'm actually retaining something of relevance that I missed in history classes, here.
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Old 03-05-2011, 11:55 AM
 
Location: roaming gnome
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DANNYY View Post
Honestly I don't think there is a way to quantify say Education is far above Tech, which is far above Medical Services, which is far above Energy, which is far above Finance, and so on and so forth. There is no way to do that, all those industries play an equal role in the integration of the American economy. There isn't anyway a person with a straight face can point and choose any of those are being significantly more prominent than the others, in my opinion.

This in general is a close comparison and without taking history into account I do firmly believe that the Bay Area does have a lead over the other two, but it is by no means a landslide at all. The fact that Boston can outrank Los Angeles or Chicago in certain aspects says enough that each of these cities (along with some not mentioned in this thread) have a specialty that is hard to quantify into better or worse.

It was extremely close between Boston & Philadelphia, and I'm still not entirely sure which one is more important but its really close so I'll be paying attention to what others have to say. Even if its about history, I'm actually retaining something of relevance that I missed in history classes, here.
There is a way to gauge the industries though, and a prominent measure is used for this, the DJIA.

Company↓ Symbol↓ Industry↓ Date Added↓
3M MMM Conglomerate 1976-08-09 1976-08-09 (as Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing)
Alcoa AA Aluminum 1959-06-01 1959-06-01 (as Aluminum Company of America)
American Express AXP Consumer finance 1982-08-30 1982-08-30
AT&T T Telecommunication 1999-11-01 1999-11-01 (as SBC Communications)
Bank of America BAC Banking 2008-02-19 2008-02-19
Boeing BA Aerospace and defense 1987-03-12 1987-03-12
Caterpillar CAT Construction and mining equipment 1991-05-06 1991-05-06
Chevron Corporation CVX Oil & gas 2008-02-19 2008-02-19
Cisco Systems CSCO Computer networking 2009-06-08 2009-06-08
Coca-Cola KO Beverages 1987-03-12 1987-03-12
DuPont DD Chemical industry 1935-11-20 1935-11-20 (also 1924-01-22 to 1925-08-31)
ExxonMobil XOM Oil & gas 1928-10-01 1928-10-01 (as Standard Oil)
General Electric GE Conglomerate 1907-11-07 1907-11-07
Hewlett-Packard HPQ Technology 1997-03-17 1997-03-17
The Home Depot HD Home improvement retailer 1999-11-01 1999-11-01
Intel INTC Semiconductors 1999-11-01 1999-11-01
IBM IBM Computers and technology 1979-06-29 1979-06-29
Johnson & Johnson JNJ Pharmaceuticals 1997-03-17 1997-03-17
JPMorgan Chase JPM Banking 1991-05-06 1991-05-06 (as J.P. Morgan & Company)
Kraft Foods KFT Food processing 2008-09-22 2008-09-22
McDonald's MCD Fast food 1985-10-30 1985-10-30
Merck MRK Pharmaceuticals 1979-06-29 1979-06-29
Microsoft MSFT Software 1999-11-01 1999-11-01
Pfizer PFE Pharmaceuticals 2004-04-08 2004-04-08
Procter & Gamble PG Consumer goods 1932-05-26 1932-05-26
Travelers TRV Insurance 2009-06-08 2009-06-08
United Technologies Corporation UTX Conglomerate 1939-03-14 1939-03-14 (as United Aircraft)
Verizon Communications VZ Telecommunication 2004-04-08 2004-04-08
Wal-Mart WMT Retail 1997-03-17 1997-03-17
Walt Disney DIS Broadcasting and entertainment 1991-05-06 1991-05-06
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Old 03-05-2011, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland/ Piedmont, CA
31,750 posts, read 54,100,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DANNYY View Post
This in general is a close comparison and without taking history into account I do firmly believe that the Bay Area does have a lead over the other two, but it is by no means a landslide at all.
Well, if we weigh all the existing rankings, as far as 'power', then San Francisco is clearly ahead of Boston and they are both a bit ahead of Philadelphia.

Quote:
In each study, the city ranked #1 was given a score of 25, the city ranked #2 was given a score of 24, the city ranked #3 was given a score of 23 and so on until the first 25 cities ranked in each survey were given scores. In the case of the Ranally and RAND rankings, I gave scores according to each cityís tier: tier 1 cities received scores of 25, tier 2 cities received 24ís, and so on. Each cityís study scores were then added together to give the city a total score. The fifteen highest scoring cities are in the chart below:


41Latitude - The Most Important Cities in the United States (http://www.41latitude.com/post/400972984/most-important-cities-united-states - broken link)
^And generally speaking, many of these rankings pertain to things that you'd think gave an advantage to Boston or Philadelphia like finance and what not.

But still, SF outranks them both.
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Old 03-05-2011, 12:15 PM
 
Location: roaming gnome
12,391 posts, read 24,184,061 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
Well, if we weigh all the existing rankings, as far as 'power', then San Francisco is clearly ahead of Boston and they are both a bit ahead of Philadelphia.



^And generally speaking, many of these rankings pertain to things that you'd think gave an advantage to Boston or Philadelphia like finance and what not.

But still, SF outranks them both.
That is true, but that is a global ranking using different methodology, along with an arbitrary picking of specific "experts". Choosing just one or two different experts, would come up with different data. As you can see even on that chart, Mastercard which is heavily finance/business base, gives Boston the edge and Ranally puts them dead even. FP, which is an international relations and comparative politics based publication, puts SF significantly higher. That data doesn't really mean much at all though. I would be wary of applying it to ranking only 3. Unless of course the question is, which city is more globally prominent. I didn't think that was the question though? The best way is to forget about those "lists" altogether, and come up with your own methodology, have people agree upon it, then we can actually get somewhere. I think several of them use opinions based on people there to do their rankings as one of their criteria. Basically they take a poll, and ask what do you think about this city. GaWC for instance, is particularly qualitative.

Last edited by grapico; 03-05-2011 at 12:25 PM..
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Old 03-05-2011, 12:48 PM
 
Location: The City
22,204 posts, read 31,506,510 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
Well, if we weigh all the existing rankings, as far as 'power', then San Francisco is clearly ahead of Boston and they are both a bit ahead of Philadelphia.



^And generally speaking, many of these rankings pertain to things that you'd think gave an advantage to Boston or Philadelphia like finance and what not.

But still, SF outranks them both.

Just a couple of points - one on GaWC - Philly gets killed on being serviced from NYC due to proximity even though it has offices that are technically aligned with the main NYC office (which has advantages and disadvantages)

Philly was also excluded from (specifically noted in Taylor because it is so close to NYC and they had to reduce ranking in any specific region) on the ones more quantitiative Philly actually outranked SF or was equal.

All are relevant pieces of information

I am actually not even really saying Philly is more important than SF or Boston but the thing is SF and Boston and Philly are actually all highly similar and the appropriate comparators; not places like LA, Chicago, and Paris

Many on here will diagree with me but as far as cities go there is

NYC

then

LA/Chicago/DC

then

Bay/Boston/Philly

then

Houston/Dallas/Atlanta (these I will also get killed for but to me they are still not quite there in another 10 or 20 years one may be far above the set above but not yet as to me this is where historical significance, culture and a long standing history of economic delivery come into play)
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Old 03-05-2011, 01:23 PM
 
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DANNNY -

I was just trying to list the things that US still dominates on (not the things that make up the US economy). In other words, we are the dominant country in food production/distribution/science, technology, weaponry, education, and pop culture. These aren't necessarily "industries," just sort of my own made-up sectors where the rest of the world isn't really nipping at our heels. Finance is something that you could argue we've sort of been slipping in, along with pop culture. I guess now that I think of it I need to add Energy Technology to it.

Whatever way you cut it, the US still dominates no matter what people say about our decline. We have a long way to decline before other countries/regions begin to challenge us in those globally-significant sectors. Also, each of those is a sector where a lot of the activity/benefit will likely stay here (not just "american" global corporations moving everything abroad).

We may not build computers here, but the development of new technological goods has obviously made the Bay Area on a whole a very rich place.

As far as the three metro comparison goes, I really think that like Chicago/LA/DC its almost a tossup for "importance." I give it to the Bay because it is the Tech center and I see that sector as the most important going forward for the US economy. It also has incredible education, biotech, and clean energy concentration, pushing it over the top.

Boston is a very close second, though. It just doesn't have the same dominance in its major niche (education).
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Old 03-05-2011, 01:25 PM
 
Location: roaming gnome
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dweebo2220 View Post
DANNNY -

I was just trying to list the things that US still dominates on (not the things that make up the US economy). In other words, we are the dominant country in food production/distribution/science, technology, weaponry, education, and pop culture. These aren't necessarily "industries," just sort of my own made-up sectors where the rest of the world isn't really nipping at our heels. Finance is something that you could argue we've sort of been slipping in, along with pop culture. I guess now that I think of it I need to add Energy Technology to it.

Whatever way you cut it, the US still dominates no matter what people say about our decline. We have a long way to decline before other countries/regions begin to challenge us in those globally-significant sectors. Also, each of those is a sector where a lot of the activity/benefit will likely stay here (not just "american" global corporations moving everything abroad).

We may not build computers here, but the development of new technological goods has obviously made the Bay Area on a whole a very rich place.

As far as the three metro comparison goes, I really think that like Chicago/LA/DC its almost a tossup for "importance." I give it to the Bay because it is the Tech center and I see that sector as the most important going forward for the US economy. It also has incredible education, biotech, and clean energy concentration, pushing it over the top.

Boston is a very close second, though. It just doesn't have the same dominance in its major niche (education).
Interesting, I see it more like the automobile, just a new innovation we will view as part of life going forward, with more and more places doing it. Only to be replaced by whatever is next. I don't think the internet will exist as it is now in 20 years.
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Old 03-05-2011, 01:30 PM
 
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In the end, though, I don't care so much for rankings of "importance." It can help for long-term planning of investments/ economic development strategies/ political moves. But it doesn't necessarily make a place more exciting, interesting, enjoyable, livable, etc. And it's definitely not what makes me want to live somewhere.

I would pretty much only live in Oakland or Philly out of any of the cities in these metros.
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Old 03-05-2011, 01:31 PM
 
Location: roaming gnome
12,391 posts, read 24,184,061 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dweebo2220 View Post
In the end, though, I don't care so much for rankings of "importance." It can help for long-term planning of investments/ economic development strategies/ political moves. But it doesn't necessarily make a place more exciting, interesting, enjoyable, livable, etc. And it's definitely not what makes me want to live somewhere.

I would pretty much only live in Oakland or Philly out of any of the cities in these metros.
It definitely shouldn't, though... There are people that view their career as something important... so that limits where you want to be if you want to be at the top of your game. I think sometimes people on here underestimate how much some people travel.
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