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View Poll Results: Which one is the most important?
Bay Area 291 57.85%
Boston 93 18.49%
Philadelphia 98 19.48%
Confused 21 4.17%
Voters: 503. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-15-2015, 01:07 PM
 
Location: In the heights
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So what are the hippest neighborhoods for all three places?
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Old 01-15-2015, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Denver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
So what are the hippest neighborhoods for all three places?
For Boston, I'd think that it'd have to be Allston/Brighton, Jamaica Plain, and Somerville (which is technically another city, but part of the urban center).
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Old 01-15-2015, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
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Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
So what are the hippest neighborhoods for all three places?
For Philadelphia it's likely Northern Liberties, Fishtown, Olde Kensington, East Passyunk Crossing and Cedar Park/Clark Park.
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Old 01-15-2015, 01:59 PM
 
1,353 posts, read 1,177,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RightonWalnut View Post
Yep. Here come a bunch of posts on the number of East Asian Millionares and percentage of exotic car drivers in San Franciso.
Actually SF doesn't have a lot of exotic car drivers. There are far more Italian imports roaming around LA, Miami, Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, Denver, and other cities than there are in SF. I don't know if that necessarily means people in SF aren't outright owning nice cars, but in terms of percentage, a) many people outright don't even own even a single car, and b) many people aren't driving their cars around anyway, if they do own one. I think both Boston and Philadelphia are similarly restrained in terms of flaunting material possessions versus the stereotypical keeping up with the jones material possession mentality found in newer/sunbelt cities.

In terms of retail, as I've said before, all 3 cities are great. There's definitely a noticeable difference between Boston's offerings and Philly's imo. In terms of DT shopping/chains/international I would give the edge to Boston, by far. In terms of independent businesses, maybe I would give the edge to Philly as Boston always seems too clean cut and generic (I would say that translates to Boston's lack of good nightlife too) and Philly is more interesting and cultivating towards the independent and funky (though I still do think that part of that is that Philly is not really even at a point where it could support many national retailers in places outside of the Walnut St strip, whereas both Boston and SF can easily support high end or even mid-range national/int'l retail throughout most of their geography).

However, the retail seen in SF's vastness of Richmond/Sunset districts and points south (Glen Park, Balboa Park, Visitacion Valley, etc) remind me more of what I've seen around Philly in terms of retail/restaurants (Philly restaurant quality superior to these neighborhoods), but where SF really outshines Philly/Boston etc are in neighborhoods like Pac Heights, Mission, Castro, Cow Hollow, Marina, Russian Hill, Hayes Valley, Lower Haight, etc etc. The amount/quality of shopping and dining in these neighborhoods is unmatched in either Boston or Philly, imo, so it's not all just Downtown/North Beach (the latter of which is a neighborhood that reminds me of several in Philly). It's a large ~40% chunk of SF filled with dense, vibrant, independent retailer filled neighborhoods each with completely different character. And I mean filled to the point where like I said, you can find a high end international fashion retailer commonly found in a high end mall or big city downtown next to an independent thrift shop who's proceeds support local AIDS charities.

In terms of independent restaurants, let's just not even go there. There's just no competition. That translates to things like independent coffee houses, too.

And in terms of formula retail - that's still relatively new. I think the first law passed in 2006, so obviously stores that signed leases/options to renew before then are grandfathered. It's unofficially amended to further restrict include what a chain is as of 2014. Chains now include certain food/gym/service outlets, as well, and there was a big discussion around both Hamburger Mary's and Soul Cycle fitting the chain bill for going into the Castro recently (Starbucks and Chipotle were recently forbidden from signing leases there last year, and I believe CVS was as well). There were also those protests against tiny little stores like Jack Spade last year, so the mentality against a store with even as few as ~10-15 international outlets and owned by Kate Spade's husband / David Spade's brother is severe and notable, not found in other cities.

There are also new and more and more protections being legislated to protect independent small businesses from being priced out. City funds set up to protect these businesses with taxpayer dollars. As a whole, when you look at the mentality of the residents, what's already on the ground/notoriety, and existing laws in place, Boston and Philly are no match for SF's independent business scene. There's also a burgeoning scene in Oakland (and by extension Berkeley), which by itself probably competes with Philly's offerings.
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Old 01-15-2015, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland/ Piedmont, CA
31,818 posts, read 54,166,883 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmac9wr View Post
Ugh, why did you guys have to joke about SF? Now this thread is going to get run into the ground for next 10+ pages.
Não Senhor, I was summoned into this boring conversation:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA
^^^Don't tell Montclair that...he's always
made it seem like SF has the biggest and
most luxurious brands, known as a place
only behind NYC when it comes to national-based fashion retailers. Seems like that
would be the opposite of boutiques (local,
small unique retailers).
Other than that, yawns
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Old 01-15-2015, 02:11 PM
 
1,353 posts, read 1,177,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
So what are the hippest neighborhoods for all three places?
Hayes Valley (still)
NoPa / Inner Richmond (pricing story - lots of people moving there)
upcoming: Tenderloin / lower Nob Hill (pricing story - lots of people moving there, and intense changes taking place)
Bernal Heights - was recently down there to go out and was actually very impressed by the level of vibrancy

What will peak in plateau/peak in pricing and eventually become less and less interesting as the resident mix becomes more homogeneous, but what could be initially perceived to be super trendy and hip to the untrained eye/visitor now?

Castro / Duboce Triangle
Mission
Potentially Hayes Valley within a couple years
Potentially North Beach within a couple years

The pace of change in SF is pretty intense - neighborhoods are all pretty much "good" to "great" places to live at this point, though like NYC but to a lesser degree, what's considered a hot spot rotates around every 3-5 years (which seems like it could be literally only 1-3 years in NYC).
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Old 01-15-2015, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Boston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmac9wr View Post
For Boston, I'd think that it'd have to be Allston/Brighton, Jamaica Plain, and Somerville (which is technically another city, but part of the urban center).
What about Cambridge!?

There's also Rozzie, which might end up getting a spill over of hipness from JP the way Somerville got it from Cambridge...

The South End might also be considered hip. Idrk.
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Old 01-15-2015, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
4,342 posts, read 7,366,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonelitist View Post
A
There are also new and more and more protections being legislated to protect independent small businesses from being priced out. City funds set up to protect these businesses with taxpayer dollars. As a whole, when you look at the mentality of the residents, what's already on the ground/notoriety, and existing laws in place, Boston and Philly are no match for SF's independent business scene. There's also a burgeoning scene in Oakland (and by extension Berkeley), which by itself probably competes with Philly's offerings.
I think that's quite a jump in conclusion. First of all, SF pretty much has to setup these strict parameters for independent businesses, because otherwise they wouldn't be able to survive financially, whereas they're able to survive much more naturally in Philadelphia, and to a lesser extent, Boston.

In terms of notoriety, I honestly don't see SF having this national perception of being the "mecca" of independent retail that you've made it out to be. It's clearly very strong, no doubt, but the "indie" scene has made inroads in towns/cities across the country, as many main streets/commercial corridors revive themselves. The notion that any one city is specifically known for independent business is rather silly.

Finally, all of these cities have residents that take pride in the local businesses environment. The fact that a few NIMBYs in SF didn't want Jack Spade on their block really doesn't speak to a particular difference in that regard, other than the fact that the residents of SF may actually feel rightfully more threatened by chain retail--more expensive real estate is a breeding ground for chains.
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Old 01-15-2015, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Denver
6,628 posts, read 12,327,292 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iAMtheVVALRUS View Post
What about Cambridge!?

There's also Rozzie, which might end up getting a spill over of hipness from JP the way Somerville got it from Cambridge...

The South End might also be considered hip. Idrk.
Yea, the South End fits the bill, though it's very upscale. I guess I was pairing "hip" with young college age kids & artists, etc
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Old 01-15-2015, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,702 posts, read 11,660,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonelitist View Post

There are also new and more and more protections being legislated to protect independent small businesses from being priced out. City funds set up to protect these businesses with taxpayer dollars. As a whole, when you look at the mentality of the residents, what's already on the ground/notoriety, and existing laws in place, Boston and Philly are no match for SF's independent business scene. There's also a burgeoning scene in Oakland (and by extension Berkeley), which by itself probably competes with Philly's offerings.
HAHAHAHA hilarious. I hope this is a joke.
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