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View Poll Results: Which city do you think is better overall?
Cleveland 203 52.59%
Detroit 183 47.41%
Voters: 386. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-08-2018, 02:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
Points well taken but unless people stop moving to the sunbelt, neither town will reach its potential. Can you imagine either city in GA or FL??
Not Florida; perhaps Georgia. Believe it or not, the old inner city area of Atlanta has parallels to Detroit and Cleveland with a lot of railroads and considerable industry. Inman Park, one of Atlanta's trendy areas is different from the glass and steel high rise, giant hotel, mall, cul-de-sac Atlanta most people are familiar with. Inman Park actually is an old 19th century area of wood frame homes and small apartment buildings, not unlike much of Detroit and Cleveland.
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Old 06-08-2018, 02:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf View Post
Not Florida; perhaps Georgia. Believe it or not, the old inner city area of Atlanta has parallels to Detroit and Cleveland with a lot of railroads and considerable industry. Inman Park, one of Atlanta's trendy areas is different from the glass and steel high rise, giant hotel, mall, cul-de-sac Atlanta most people are familiar with. Inman Park actually is an old 19th century area of wood frame homes and small apartment buildings, not unlike much of Detroit and Cleveland.
Yea I have been to Inman Park (stayed in Airbnb a week), nothing like the midwest. But any old industrial southeast city has at least some in common with the rustbelt.
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Old 06-08-2018, 10:35 PM
 
1,659 posts, read 1,950,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf View Post
Actually, Cleveland is winning by only 20 votes of currently 322 votes cast, only a 6% lead; that's not that much and, personally, I thought the margin would be wider. But such is life and people's opinions...



In point of fact, Cleveland has multiple high energy nodes; many more inside the city than Detroit and accessible by the rail transit Detroit subbornly lacks: Ohio City, University Circle, Shaker Square, Detroit-Shoreway, Edgewater, E. 4th, the Flats, Little Italy, ... among others. Outside Downtown Detroit, Midtown (big thumbs up to Midtown!) and East Jefferson/Indian Village ... where? OK, I'll Throw in Greektown, which is downtown and Eastern Market, which is an isolated island that only really comes to live Saturday morning/early afternoon. Otherwise, you really have to travel to Detroit's far out/far spaced burbs to get this kind energy/interest.
1. You missed Corktown, the New Center area, and Mexicantown.

2. Here a couple of exciting developments under construction in the New Center Area:

The Boulevard, a six-story residential/retail building

Baltimore Station, mixed use adaptive re-use of 2 existing storefronts, adding a 3rd floor

Detroit Pistons new HQ/Practice Facility/Physical Rehabilitation Center
-The facility will include a 5,000 square feet market featuring a coffee shop, grab-and-go marketplace with a healthy menu, along with beer and wine selections.

3. Eastern Market is not on an island, it is adjacent to downtown. Also, it has a smaller Tuesday Market during the warm mornings and a Sunday Market that showcases local artisans, jewelers, musicians etc. The area surrounding the market is full of businesses including clothing boutiques, specialty grocery stores (cheese, jams, spices, meats, etc), art galleries, restaurants, a brewery, a distillery, bakeries, etc. Here is a business directory

4. You combined East Jefferson/Indian Village, but the East Riverfront is distinct from the Villages

Last edited by usroute10; 06-08-2018 at 10:50 PM..
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Old 06-08-2018, 11:22 PM
 
6,305 posts, read 13,203,006 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
1. You missed Corktown, the New Center area, and Mexicantown.

2. Here a couple of exciting developments under construction in the New Center Area:

The Boulevard, a six-story residential/retail building

Baltimore Station, mixed use adaptive re-use of 2 existing storefronts, adding a 3rd floor

Detroit Pistons new HQ/Practice Facility/Physical Rehabilitation Center
-The facility will include a 5,000 square feet market featuring a coffee shop, grab-and-go marketplace with a healthy menu, along with beer and wine selections.

3. Eastern Market is not on an island, it is adjacent to downtown. Also, it has a smaller Tuesday Market during the warm mornings and a Sunday Market that showcases local artisans, jewelers, musicians etc. The area surrounding the market is full of businesses including clothing boutiques, specialty grocery stores (cheese, jams, spices, meats, etc), art galleries, restaurants, a brewery, a distillery, bakeries, etc. Here is a business directory

4. You combined East Jefferson/Indian Village, but the East Riverfront is distinct from the Villages
Exactly....and there is more. Even north Corktown is starting to develop. I really encourage everyone to explore these areas more in person. You will appreciate your own city more.

I encourage everyone on these boards to travel to these different cities, particularly the underrated ones, and bike and drive around the core for 3 or 4 days, nonstop. You will really see alot of interesting stuff and meet alot of interesting people.

There is no doubt Cleveland is ahead of Detroit in downtown development, but since Detroit is a much bigger city, I still think Detroit has more potential. Detroit is a blank canvas. Cleveland's biggest problem is continued metro population loss. Detroit seems to be finally shaking that stat.
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Old 06-09-2018, 01:09 AM
 
1,659 posts, read 1,950,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Detroit has nothing comparable to Cleveland's University Circle, although it has a very fine art museum.
Detroit doesn't have a large, landscaped pond like Cleveland, but it does have a Cultural Center that includes an Art College, Science Museum, African-American History Museum, Detroit Institute of Arts, the Main Branch of the Public Library, and the Detroit Historical Museum

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Have you ever visited both the Detroit and Cleveland main public libraries (there is no comparison in quality)?
Both libraries are stunning and make outstanding contributions to their respective cities. Please see the below webpage and get back to me about Cleveland's being superior. Are you serious?

http://www.lifeinmichigan.com/a-date...ublic-library/


Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Detroit doesn't have a national park sitting within biking distance of downtown.
Detroit can't compete with Cuyahoga National Park, but it is 20 miles from downtown Cleveland, is that really biking distance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Detroit has no theater district comparable to Playhouse Square and no downtown attraction comparable to Cleveland's Rock & Roll Hall of Fame and Museum.
-Detroit once had the 5th most visited attraction in the country, let me introduce to the FORD ROTUNDA

-Detroit does not have a concentrated theater district anymore, but has 6 theaters in the northern part of downtown.

-Concerning the RRHF, Detroit does not have an international-recognized tourist attraction like that, but it does have the largest indoor/outdoor museum complex in the country in Greenfield Village and notable museums like the Holocaust Memorial Center, the Motown Museum, the Arab-American Museum, etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Cleveland has a much better zoo. Cleveland has a better mass transit system and a 37th-ranked national university by U.S. News & World Report.
Zoo: They are both not really thought of nationally, Toledo's is better than both.
Mass Transit: Absolutely correct
University: Absolutely correct, but the University of Michigan (which was originally started in Detroit) is 45 minutes to the west & is 25th-ranked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
Pound for pound, per capita, I do think Cleveland beats Detroit. But due to Detroit being essentially over twice as big, it has bigger pants to fill and if it ever does, watch out. That's why the ceiling is lower in Cleveland.
I agree with Peter! Per Capita, Pound for Pound, Cleveland beats Detroit!
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Old 06-09-2018, 03:11 AM
 
7,097 posts, read 4,097,322 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
Detroit doesn't have a large, landscaped pond like Cleveland, but it does have a Cultural Center that includes an Art College, Science Museum, African-American History Museum, Detroit Institute of Arts, the Main Branch of the Public Library, and the Detroit Historical Museum.
I've been to Detroit's Cultural Center. The difference is massively greater than just the Cleveland Museum of Art's Fine Arts Garden with Wade Lagoon.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1YDn7eVnMg

E.g., University Circle encompasses Severance Hall, one of the nation's greatest concert halls and home of the Cleveland Orchestra, which the NY Times calls arguably the best in the U.S.; Case Western Reserve, the 37th-ranked U.S. national university by U.S. News & World Report; and the Greater University Circle area includes the campus of the Cleveland Clinic, one of the world's greatest medical institutions; and several other major cultural institutions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_Circle

https://www.universitycircle.org/

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/22/a...egie-hall.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/27/a...a-tristan.html

E.g., the Cleveland Museum of Art's $320 million expansion and complete renovation created a 21st century museum with the world's leading digital technology and a museum space that well eclipses the physical plant of the DIA, where visitors were encouraged to carry around folding chairs if they want a respite from viewing the art when I last visited it.

https://www.cleveland.com/arts/index...of_arts_p.html

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innov...art-180968007/

And the differences continue to escalate, as University Circle emerges as a residential center and one of Ohio's major employment centers with over 50,000 jobs.

http://www.ideastream.org/programs/i...versity-circle

One University Circle opens its doors | Crain's Cleveland Business

https://www.universitycircle.org/visit/uptown

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/t...cleveland.html

See the video linked here:

Collaboration creates connection as Nord Family Greenway opens

https://www.cleveland.com/architectu...tiful_but.html

University Circle also is a great location for serious film lovers. The Cleveland Institute of Art's Cinematheque and the Cleveland Museum of Art both offer acclaimed film programs.

https://www.cia.edu/cinematheque

http://www.clevelandart.org/events/films

With Little Italy and otherwise several of Cleveland's best restaurants, University Circle also has a good foodie scene, not even considering its Red Line rail rapid connection to the Ohio City Market District, featuring the acclaimed West Side Market.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g...de.Market.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
Both libraries are stunning and make outstanding contributions to their respective cities. Please see the below webpage and get back to me about Cleveland's being superior. Are you serious?
Yes, as somebody who has visited both libraries, I'm very serious. Like much of Detroit's cultural institutions, the main branch of Detroit's Public Library was very dated and dingy, despite its architectural wonders, when I last visited it.

In the 1980s, Cleveland's Public Library's main branch was greatly expanded and modernized, with trenches even cut into the floors to accommodate modern computer and electrical systems.

https://cpl.org/main-library/

https://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/788

Sadly, Detroit's financial woes led to significant underinvestment in many of the city's great cultural institutions.




Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
Detroit can't compete with Cuyahoga National Park, but it is 20 miles from downtown Cleveland, is that really biking distance?
What a ridiculous question. You're obviously not a biker.

Biking in Greater Cleveland

The Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad, which runs through the CVNP, also accommodates bikers.

https://www.cvsr.com/take-the-train/bike-aboard/

Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
-Detroit does not have a concentrated theater district anymore, but has 6 theaters in the northern part of downtown.
Cleveland's Playhouse Square not only is a concentrated theater district, but it houses two great independent theater companies -- the Tony-winning Cleveland Play House and the Tom Hanks-championed Great Lakes Theatre (of which, Hanks was an alumni in its early days). Playhouse Square also has become an economic engine, greatly contributing to the residential boom in downtown Cleveland, even directly investing in residential projects.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g...usesquare.html

http://www.ideastream.org/news/lumen...ayhouse-square

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/02/r...-alluring.html

Cleveland has other acclaimed theater spaces, including Karamu House and the Beck Center in Lakewood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
-Concerning the RRHF, Detroit does not have an international-recognized tourist attraction like that, but it does have the largest indoor/outdoor museum complex in the country in Greenfield Village and notable museums like the Holocaust Memorial Center, the Motown Museum, the Arab-American Museum, etc.
My point was that the Rock Hall was in downtown Cleveland.

The Henry Ford is a great institution and IMO, the very top attraction in Greater Detroit. When I last visited Greenfield Village, I realized how sadly dated it was, with many relocated houses hardly of interest to modern Americans, such as Noah Webster's house, but you can't beat the preferred means of transport -- GV's pervasive collection of Model Ts!!! And GV's Halloween and Christmas events are top-notch, likely not having their equal in any other American city to my knowledge; they're magical and must delight generation after generation of Detroit children. Every family in the Midwest should set a visit to The Henry Ford as a goal.

https://www.thehenryford.org/current...field-village/

BTW, it's not close to Cleveland, but Dayton's aviation history attractions are the real thing (especially Huffman Prairie Field, largely unknown despite its immense historical importance, and the Wright Flyer III, very arguably world's truly first airplane) and IMO collectively the great overlooked historical attraction in the Midwest.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g...The.World.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
Zoo: They are both not really thought of nationally, Toledo's is better than both.
I do know that many Detroiters visit the very good Toledo Zoo because it is better than Detroit's.

Ohio is blessed to have four great zoos, and each has distinctive attributes. Those at the Cleveland Metroparks Zoo include the RainForest and African Elephant Crossing exhibits. All four Ohio zoos are regularly nominated for the annual zoo popularity contest at USA Today as among the 20 best zoos in the U.S. I have a difficult time deciding which is best because I have my favorite attractions at all four zoos.

https://www.10best.com/awards/travel/best-us-zoo/

Last edited by WRnative; 06-09-2018 at 04:02 AM..
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Old 06-09-2018, 07:44 AM
 
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To me Detroit is by far the more desirable city: the energy of its current revival, its history, its beautiful architecture like the Fisher building, Michigan Central Station or the Renaissance center, its downtown, and its proximity to Canada.

Cleveland is just your average run of the mill rustbelt city with not much going for it.
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Old 06-09-2018, 10:25 AM
 
1,975 posts, read 2,579,674 times
Reputation: 1602
Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
1. You missed Corktown, the New Center area, and Mexicantown.

2. Here a couple of exciting developments under construction in the New Center Area:

The Boulevard, a six-story residential/retail building

Baltimore Station, mixed use adaptive re-use of 2 existing storefronts, adding a 3rd floor

Detroit Pistons new HQ/Practice Facility/Physical Rehabilitation Center
-The facility will include a 5,000 square feet market featuring a coffee shop, grab-and-go marketplace with a healthy menu, along with beer and wine selections.

3. Eastern Market is not on an island, it is adjacent to downtown. Also, it has a smaller Tuesday Market during the warm mornings and a Sunday Market that showcases local artisans, jewelers, musicians etc. The area surrounding the market is full of businesses including clothing boutiques, specialty grocery stores (cheese, jams, spices, meats, etc), art galleries, restaurants, a brewery, a distillery, bakeries, etc. Here is a business directory

4. You combined East Jefferson/Indian Village, but the East Riverfront is distinct from the Villages
Fair points about East Jefferson and Indian Village; they are separate, as is nearby Belle Isle, which is awesome, too.

Eastern Market has developed into it's own neighborhood of shops and restaurants along with the Market, itself, and that's great. I do see it as an island from which you still must drive, Uber or hop a Gratiot Ave bus to reach downtown. EM is very quiet, if not dead, during weekdays and Sunday, but that' expected.

I do like Mexicantown, but right now its just a few blocks of restaurants near the Vernor Rd (Highway) strip, which, itself, has a lot of potential in terms of a mixed-use, walkable streetscape (including rowhouses!), but currently isn't there yet. There is a nice, old residential area off the strip, too.

I find Corktown overrated. It's not nearly as beefy, busy or alive as, say, Midtown. Sure there's a few bars/restaurants including the legendary Slows, but not much else. There are a few blocks of nicely restored old houses, apartments and a few row houses and the amazing MGM Grand casino is a few blocks away to the northeast (and of course the huge, looming Michigan Central RR terminal nearby -- at least they've sealed up the windows and looks more handsome these days; not the spooky ruins of decades past-- but the area just seems lifeless every time I go there and disconnected from things around it. I see there's a plan to keep the Tiger's Stadium site and a public baseball field, which is cool. The area has potential, but is not there yet.

If Detroit had real rail rapid transit to connect each of these nodes: Midtown, Corktown, Mexicantown, Eastern Market, East Jefferson and Indian Village -- along with, say, Royal Oak, the airport with downtown... imagine.

Last edited by TheProf; 06-09-2018 at 10:50 AM..
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Old 06-09-2018, 12:04 PM
 
Location: In the heights
20,234 posts, read 21,814,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drro View Post
To me Detroit is by far the more desirable city: the energy of its current revival, its history, its beautiful architecture like the Fisher building, Michigan Central Station or the Renaissance center, its downtown, and its proximity to Canada.

Cleveland is just your average run of the mill rustbelt city with not much going for it.
A lot of the rust belt cities have quite different characteristics aside from that former manufacturing capability that groups them together. Cleveland started its development as one of the largest cities in the US decades earlier than Detroit did and there are things about the cities that reflect that.

Also, Cleveland's on a lake. A big one! And has a light rail and heavy rail transit system which is terribly underused with its main station close to giant parking lots, but may one day actually be made useful by building (or rebuilding) densely around the stations. It also has a major university and essentially a secondary downtown within city limits with University Circle.
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Old 06-09-2018, 01:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drro View Post
Cleveland is just your average run of the mill rustbelt city with not much going for it.
Res ipsa loquitur. Ah yeah, let's just say this comment speaks for itself.
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