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Unread 03-19-2011, 06:49 PM
 
Location: nyc/philly/pg county.
5,985 posts, read 5,309,014 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nineties Flava View Post
Attitude towards what? Blacks in Canada don't have as much to have an "attitude" about as blacks in America do.

However, let's not act like Canada doesn't have its own history. The only difference is that the main victims in Canada were native Americans and Asians as there were more of them. Blacks were still segregated though... the last segregated black school in Canada was closed in 1983.
when i say class in attitude i mean blacks in Canada are more friendlier and friendly when approached as compared to here.

but then overall i find Canadian people more friendly then people in the states.
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Unread 03-19-2011, 06:51 PM
 
Location: nyc/philly/pg county.
5,985 posts, read 5,309,014 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingchef View Post
i would definitely give these a try:

1. chicago---because of salaries, culture, large medical community, past history of blacks in the city;
2. detriot---culture, so many black institutions, so much black history, and much of the city government is run by blacks, somewhat similar in chicago;
3.atllanta---i think it wants to be known as the city of opportunities for black people; several black teaching institutions, a city known for black entrepreneurial opportunities;
4. knoxville,tn---i think, even though it is a very small city, there would be more opportunities for blacks because of the dramatic enforcement of the equal opportunity employment clause. sometimes, there is a distinct advantage for being in the minority. i believe that the city or region has currently slightly more than 5% black living in that area of tn. i need to check that number, but i was reading stats the other night, and i believe the computer through that analysis out. certainly, w/ all the opportunities available for black minorities in federal, state, county, and city government, and w/ the opportunities in private employment, including self employment and minority owned business opportunities, knox county and knoxville would be an excellent place to rear a family. i have even read on this particular forum questions which relate to the subject;
5.tri cities area---much for the same reasons as listed above. neither of these areas is as diverse as tn claims to want to be as a state. consequently, i think if single, young couples, or mid-lifers want a change, east tn, along w/ its desire to become the destination area for retirees for tn, i would definitely move to this area. they have many lakes for fishing, as their literature tells everyone, they don't have the urban problems that you find in tn's biggest city, memphis, and, according to changing demographics, the black middle class is relocating to suburban areas, in order to get away from the inner city. heaven knows that nashville, though it is in middle tn, is essentially a city of small suburbs. only approximately 1/3 of the identified nashville-davidson county msa actually falls w/in davdison county. so, heck, look at all of those small towns, municipalities, suburbs, and rural areas available, not to mention the jobs. if you don't wish to attend school in davidson county, you can go to mtsu, carson newman baptist, cookeville, and more;
6. charlotte, nc---because of economic growth, need more educated blacks (particularly teachers willing to teach in the public school system.)
7. if i were considering a city because of children, and i could afford it, i would choose a suburb of washington d.c. (not the city, however.) educational experiences black teaching institutions, school opportunities, art, science, music, federal jobs for the educated, beautiful state;
8. dallas---economic opportunities, apparent future state growth far exceeding that of the nation, military outlets, large medical community, fairly warm year round minority advantages, particularly for women and federal workers, diverse enough to pick and choose your likes and dislikes;
9. phoenix---economic growth, minority opportunities, desert climate; and
10. san diego---economic growth, military opportunities, abundance of high tech employment.

i never heard of Chicago being on a list of anything productive of blacks. Im aware that their are some nice black areas in Chicago but for the most part i hear the strong majority of black areas in Chicago are some type of ghetto.

Last edited by JMT; 02-22-2012 at 02:44 PM..
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Unread 03-19-2011, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA & Beirut, Lebanon
92 posts, read 20,178 times
Reputation: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by nycjowww View Post
racism is everywhere indeed but their shouldn't be no arguemnt. i have been to canada numerous times and those people are light years ahead of Americans when it comes to accepting other cultures and races.

some people in america till this day think interracial relationships are a taboo.

not me off coarse but canada is more racially friendly. i wish canada was in a warm part of the world.
As someone who lived many years in Toronto, it is by far the most depressing place I have lived as a black man. There is nothing resembling an upper middle class black community at all and to find a strong black voice in business or politics you have to search far and wide.

Out of 45 city council members only one is black, and the black member is one of the most self hating black people I have ever seen in politics. We are talking a extreme right wing, pro racial profiling (yes he came out publicly and supported racially targeting car searches) self hate.

My wife worked at the major law firm on Bay Street (at that time as a Paralegal/Law Clerk, she is now an attorney) and there was not ONE black attorney in the firm. The firm was one of the largest in Toronto, btw. I also read a study from 2009 that there was an estimated no more than a Dozen black parters on Bay Street, there are US law firms in certain cities that have more than that in one firm. Now in the US city we live in she works at the largest law firm in the city and the managing partner is a black woman. I wont even go into my personal experiences at my place of work either.

As I said earlier as well, over 85% of the gun victims are black and over 1/3rd of all blacks live below the poverty line. Now please explain to me again about this racial utopia again? I will take my chances Stateside anyday.

Last edited by forwardman; 03-19-2011 at 10:58 PM..
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Unread 03-20-2011, 02:59 PM
2dc
 
87 posts, read 253,168 times
Reputation: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galounger View Post
I think all of you are missing the point of the listing and the need for African Americans to find places that are favorable towards them. I see the argument many have that a "whiter" place would actually be more beneficial to most blacks and sure it would be great if we could all be completely colorblind on the issue but I think I need to point out some facts that may make some sense out of what you all are perceiving as madness.

1. Places like Atlanta and D.C. aren't considered favorable to African American families because of their "Homie in the Hood" cultures but to the contrary because they offer such a wide variety of cultural experiences for blacks that they couldn't find in many other cities. There also is a "go getter" attitude among many black entrepreneurs in Atlanta and D.C. that doesn't exist in places where blacks are more held back by discrimination.

2. Business wise. Blacks benefit greatly from the socio-economic climate in places like Atlanta and D.C. because reality is we live in a world where it matters greatly not just what you know but who you know. This is very very true in the business world. In a place like D.C. or ATL where there are many blacks in position of power and wealth a black person is far more likely to have a close relationship with someone that they can "get things done with". There is much networking that takes place between blacks here and for once blacks actually benefit from the "old boy network" instead of get hurt by it in these places. In many cases they are on the "inside track" instead of on the outside looking in. Many whites hate this and scream reverse discrimination all the time in these towns and that's partially what leads to some high racial friction in these towns but the opposite situation exist in most parts of America and has forever.

3. Even though the calender reads 2011 African Americans still have a long long way to go to economically be on equal footing with whites. Education wise and Income wise blacks are closing the gap some but in a free enterprise system the real true measure of success is not income but wealth. Wealth wise African Americans have actually been falling further and further behind their white counterparts for the past 20 years African American Wealth Gap Quadruples - BLACK ENTERPRISE One reason for this is because there is a huge disparity between blacks and other races when it comes to business ownership Racial disparities in business ownership This disparity is less in places like Atlanta. Also poverty levels for blacks are far worse than for whites in the U.S. Comparisons between whites and African-Americans

4. As much as I would love to just say race doesn't matter and not pay attention to Black/White comparisons the facts above show that African Americans as a whole still are far behind and most of this is an inherited consequence of past institutional racism that hasn't been remedied yet. When the facts above are no longer true then I will gladly say that race doesn't matter. And to those that say it's about money not race yeah it is about money but the facts above show there is a very strong disturbing correlation between lack of money and one's race. That's why race still matters in America to day.

5. People harp on how there is less racial tension in places that are more white. You're right! Whites are very happy in those places because they have all the resources, power and influence. They don't have to compete with blacks for good land, jobs, political power or anything else really. Therefore there is very little white flight, racial bickering or stress. Whites in places like Seattle and Minneapolis often proudly boast about how color blind they are and put down people in the South or Detroit, D.C. etc. for being so stuck on race. Put a million more blacks in any of those places and I guarantee you will see a completely different side to them. All of a sudden they would become very racially motivated. Trust me.





Lastly. Like I said before. I wish I could just say race doesn't matter and Black, White, other issues only are important because people bring them up. But fact of the matter is that is not true in the real world. There is still a ton of racial inequality much of it a lingering result of past institutional racism some of it a result of present day racism. To deny this rather you are black or white doesn't help the situation. To do so only is to bury your head in the sand and try not to see reality for what it is and as thus you are only making a screwed up situation even worse by ignoring it.
The best response in this thread. Some people get it others don't. You my friend get what the meaning of this list is all about. For people to think DC or Atlanta has this "hood" mentality that is pervasive shows that they don't really know the black community in either city. Are there poor blacks in both cities? Yes, but there is also the most educated, wealthiest African American populations in both cities than in any other areas in the country. With maybe Houston, RDU, NC or Charlotte coming 3rd, 4th, 5th respectively.
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Unread 03-20-2011, 05:21 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
11,398 posts, read 9,461,224 times
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I don't agree with the list. Blacks, as a whole, are still considered gross underachievers. High educational achievement is not the norm in the black community, but the exception. Gangs, thug life, rap, drugs, violence, crime are the norm, while obtaining advanced degrees in mathematics, sciences, medicine and law, and engineering are the exceptions. Respect for black women, for each other, for family responsibilities are the exception, not the norm. If being around a black community means that it is more likely than not that black kids will have to work much, much harder to be the exception, no thanks.

Also, there is a great deal of self-hatred within the black community. There's the light-skinned/dark-skinned debate where lighter skinned blacks feel they are superior and more entitled than darker-skinned blacks. There is the disrespect for women. Many black men don't take their responsibilities seriously in caring for their kids and their wives. Far too many black women who are not treated fairly and/or left to fend for themselves as single mothers. Black women should be honored, yet are not. An incredible number of single black women who have been used and abused by black men within the black community. The hopes of many of these women for a loving husband and family have been dashed because they can't find one black man who can be true and devoted to just them. It's absurd and quite a shame. Black men don't even appear to respect each other on many levels. As a betrayal of the black woman, being on the "down low" has become more than a fad. I believe two of the cities on this list, DC and Atlanta, are popular cities for this odd behavior among black men. Black-on-black crime is high. In areas with large black communities, rap appears to take precedence over classical music. Too many distractions for studious school-aged kids. Being cerebral and educationally-focused is looked upon as a weakness. "Street cred" appears to dominate in the black community not purity of heart, purity of effort, and a sincere effort to strive for high achievement. No thank you. Check the "street cred" definition in the urban dictionary:

Urban Dictionary: street cred

I think the last thing black families need to be doing is raising their kids in cities where street cred is prevalent, as this is the most destructive element of the black community today. Not good to raise black kids in places where they have to work doubly hard to be considered "the exception." New York, Chicago, and LA are cities which are big enough to present alternative options. I wouldn't classify the cities on this list as the "best" in this regard.

Last edited by LexusNexus; 03-20-2011 at 05:31 PM..
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Unread 03-20-2011, 06:30 PM
 
24,044 posts, read 18,814,574 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Lexus View Post
I don't agree with the list. Blacks, as a whole, are still considered gross underachievers. High educational achievement is not the norm in the black community, but the exception. Gangs, thug life, rap, drugs, violence, crime are the norm, while obtaining advanced degrees in mathematics, sciences, medicine and law, and engineering are the exceptions. Respect for black women, for each other, for family responsibilities are the exception, not the norm. If being around a black community means that it is more likely than not that black kids will have to work much, much harder to be the exception, no thanks.

Also, there is a great deal of self-hatred within the black community. There's the light-skinned/dark-skinned debate where lighter skinned blacks feel they are superior and more entitled than darker-skinned blacks. There is the disrespect for women. Many black men don't take their responsibilities seriously in caring for their kids and their wives. Far too many black women who are not treated fairly and/or left to fend for themselves as single mothers. Black women should be honored, yet are not. An incredible number of single black women who have been used and abused by black men within the black community. The hopes of many of these women for a loving husband and family have been dashed because they can't find one black man who can be true and devoted to just them. It's absurd and quite a shame. Black men don't even appear to respect each other on many levels. As a betrayal of the black woman, being on the "down low" has become more than a fad. I believe two of the cities on this list, DC and Atlanta, are popular cities for this odd behavior among black men. Black-on-black crime is high. In areas with large black communities, rap appears to take precedence over classical music. Too many distractions for studious school-aged kids. Being cerebral and educationally-focused is looked upon as a weakness. "Street cred" appears to dominate in the black community not purity of heart, purity of effort, and a sincere effort to strive for high achievement. No thank you. Check the "street cred" definition in the urban dictionary:

Urban Dictionary: street cred

I think the last thing black families need to be doing is raising their kids in cities where street cred is prevalent, as this is the most destructive element of the black community today. Not good to raise black kids in places where they have to work doubly hard to be considered "the exception." New York, Chicago, and LA are cities which are big enough to present alternative options. I wouldn't classify the cities on this list as the "best" in this regard.
First paragraph: One can find high achieving Black people. Question is, where are they? And I didn't know what to say about some of this, except another question: Why is getting an education considered not normal for Black people? Why are African-Americans that aim high branded as "acting White"? Where did this come from? This didn't come out of nowhere. There are some Black communities with decent values. However, they are harder to find and get less attention than what you just described.

Second paragraph: I can agree about the self-hatred part. Question is, where did it come from? Why aren't Black women honored more? Why is gang life glorified in MTV and BET? Why do you find Cornell West on BET alot less than you do the gang life glorification? And something else. Hip hop formed as a response to the problems of inner city life, and it was originally about social consciousness. However, when the love of money got in the game, that is when hip hop turned bad.

And some more anecdotes on this subject: My father didn't want me around those distractions. We were new to the Atlanta area, so we went where we could get more house for the money. It was a predominantly White area. No one told my family the area was one step away from being exactly like the place in the movie Deliverance. It didn't keep me from the distractions. My grades actually dropped. I got the first F I ever had living there. Moving out there didn't do me any good, as the culture out there was just as dysfunctional and indifferent towards education as in many Black communities. And, oh yes, racism was a big issue out there. I bring this up because you said NYC, Chicago, and LA are big enough for Black families to have alternatives. Well, they are also expensive places to live(Chicago less so, but still, Atlanta is much cheaper). My father wanted a place better than where we were living. Someone got murdered on our street, so he wanted to get his wife and 3 young children away from it. We ended up in a place just as dysfunctional, but in a more racist place. We didn't know what we were getting into, as we had only been in metropolitan Atlanta for 18 months and didn't know much.

Now here are some questions:

Why is it that when African-Americans become successful, they are less likely to live in predominantly African-American areas?

Why is it that many predominantly African-American areas are the places where the worst elements of the African-American community gather?
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Unread 03-21-2011, 06:09 AM
 
Location: metro ATL
8,190 posts, read 5,646,489 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Lexus View Post
I don't agree with the list. Blacks, as a whole, are still considered gross underachievers. High educational achievement is not the norm in the black community, but the exception. Gangs, thug life, rap, drugs, violence, crime are the norm, while obtaining advanced degrees in mathematics, sciences, medicine and law, and engineering are the exceptions. Respect for black women, for each other, for family responsibilities are the exception, not the norm. If being around a black community means that it is more likely than not that black kids will have to work much, much harder to be the exception, no thanks.

Also, there is a great deal of self-hatred within the black community. There's the light-skinned/dark-skinned debate where lighter skinned blacks feel they are superior and more entitled than darker-skinned blacks. There is the disrespect for women. Many black men don't take their responsibilities seriously in caring for their kids and their wives. Far too many black women who are not treated fairly and/or left to fend for themselves as single mothers. Black women should be honored, yet are not. An incredible number of single black women who have been used and abused by black men within the black community. The hopes of many of these women for a loving husband and family have been dashed because they can't find one black man who can be true and devoted to just them. It's absurd and quite a shame. Black men don't even appear to respect each other on many levels. As a betrayal of the black woman, being on the "down low" has become more than a fad. I believe two of the cities on this list, DC and Atlanta, are popular cities for this odd behavior among black men. Black-on-black crime is high. In areas with large black communities, rap appears to take precedence over classical music. Too many distractions for studious school-aged kids. Being cerebral and educationally-focused is looked upon as a weakness. "Street cred" appears to dominate in the black community not purity of heart, purity of effort, and a sincere effort to strive for high achievement. No thank you. Check the "street cred" definition in the urban dictionary:

Urban Dictionary: street cred

I think the last thing black families need to be doing is raising their kids in cities where street cred is prevalent, as this is the most destructive element of the black community today. Not good to raise black kids in places where they have to work doubly hard to be considered "the exception." New York, Chicago, and LA are cities which are big enough to present alternative options. I wouldn't classify the cities on this list as the "best" in this regard.
I disagree with much of this because there is no longer one singular Black community and this fracturing has been occurring for some time now. There are tons and tons of middle-class Black families in America where the things you state are not true and do not apply.
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Unread 03-21-2011, 06:30 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
2,397 posts, read 3,025,995 times
Reputation: 1211
Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
First paragraph: One can find high achieving Black people. Question is, where are they? And I didn't know what to say about some of this, except another question: Why is getting an education considered not normal for Black people? Why are African-Americans that aim high branded as "acting White"? Where did this come from? This didn't come out of nowhere. There are some Black communities with decent values. However, they are harder to find and get less attention than what you just described.

Second paragraph: I can agree about the self-hatred part. Question is, where did it come from? Why aren't Black women honored more? Why is gang life glorified in MTV and BET? Why do you find Cornell West on BET alot less than you do the gang life glorification? And something else. Hip hop formed as a response to the problems of inner city life, and it was originally about social consciousness. However, when the love of money got in the game, that is when hip hop turned bad.

And some more anecdotes on this subject: My father didn't want me around those distractions. We were new to the Atlanta area, so we went where we could get more house for the money. It was a predominantly White area. No one told my family the area was one step away from being exactly like the place in the movie Deliverance. It didn't keep me from the distractions. My grades actually dropped. I got the first F I ever had living there. Moving out there didn't do me any good, as the culture out there was just as dysfunctional and indifferent towards education as in many Black communities. And, oh yes, racism was a big issue out there. I bring this up because you said NYC, Chicago, and LA are big enough for Black families to have alternatives. Well, they are also expensive places to live(Chicago less so, but still, Atlanta is much cheaper). My father wanted a place better than where we were living. Someone got murdered on our street, so he wanted to get his wife and 3 young children away from it. We ended up in a place just as dysfunctional, but in a more racist place. We didn't know what we were getting into, as we had only been in metropolitan Atlanta for 18 months and didn't know much.

Now here are some questions:

Why is it that when African-Americans become successful, they are less likely to live in predominantly African-American areas?

Why is it that many predominantly African-American areas are the places where the worst elements of the African-American community gather?
Quote:
I don't agree with the list. Blacks, as a whole, are still considered gross underachievers. High educational achievement is not the norm in the black community, but the exception. Gangs, thug life, rap, drugs, violence, crime are the norm, while obtaining advanced degrees in mathematics, sciences, medicine and law, and engineering are the exceptions. Respect for black women, for each other, for family responsibilities are the exception, not the norm. If being around a black community means that it is more likely than not that black kids will have to work much, much harder to be the exception, no thanks.

Also, there is a great deal of self-hatred within the black community. There's the light-skinned/dark-skinned debate where lighter skinned blacks feel they are superior and more entitled than darker-skinned blacks. There is the disrespect for women. Many black men don't take their responsibilities seriously in caring for their kids and their wives. Far too many black women who are not treated fairly and/or left to fend for themselves as single mothers. Black women should be honored, yet are not. An incredible number of single black women who have been used and abused by black men within the black community. The hopes of many of these women for a loving husband and family have been dashed because they can't find one black man who can be true and devoted to just them. It's absurd and quite a shame. Black men don't even appear to respect each other on many levels. As a betrayal of the black woman, being on the "down low" has become more than a fad. I believe two of the cities on this list, DC and Atlanta, are popular cities for this odd behavior among black men. Black-on-black crime is high. In areas with large black communities, rap appears to take precedence over classical music. Too many distractions for studious school-aged kids. Being cerebral and educationally-focused is looked upon as a weakness. "Street cred" appears to dominate in the black community not purity of heart, purity of effort, and a sincere effort to strive for high achievement. No thank you. Check the "street cred" definition in the urban dictionary:

Urban Dictionary: street cred

I think the last thing black families need to be doing is raising their kids in cities where street cred is prevalent, as this is the most destructive element of the black community today. Not good to raise black kids in places where they have to work doubly hard to be considered "the exception." New York, Chicago, and LA are cities which are big enough to present alternative options. I wouldn't classify the cities on this list as the "best" in this regard.
I definitely don't think Atlanta or D.C. are some type of black utopia all through out. Atlanta has lots of black neighborhoods that I in no way would want to raise my family. And yes Atlanta does attract some underclass blacks that actually love the ghetto lifestyle. Where Atlanta really differs from most cities though and what I really think is so positive is that there are actually lots and lots of nice middle class black neighborhoods if you look. And whether you live in a black neighborhood, mixed neighborhood or majority black neighborhood your children are going to be exposed to black people of every conceivable kind just by being in Atlanta. From Black beggars to black judges, from dope dealers to executives, from hoodlums to airplane pilots, junkies and college professors and lots of black college students. It's not just one dimensional in Atlanta. They are going to see some negative but they are also going to see a tremendous amount of positive as long as they don't just limit themselves to the ghetto. In many cities of America it would be impossible for them to see anywhere near the number of positive black role models they can find here.

All that being said however, I actually think Metro Atlanta is best for Blacks families that are atleast of Middle Class income. If you are Working Class or poor you may wind up being forced to live in an area where you have the type of negative experience you described above.

Last edited by Galounger; 03-21-2011 at 06:39 AM..
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Unread 03-21-2011, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Southern Minnesota
5,992 posts, read 6,173,062 times
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Great post, A_Lexus. I agree 100% with what you said. That's why I feel the best places for black and/or multiracial kids is in predominately white areas, especially those north of the Canadian border. The fact of the matter is, most black communities are dysfunctional. I know that some are not, but as A_Lexus said, they are the exception, not the rule. At least in Canada, the thug culture is almost nonexistent (except in Toronto) and racism is minimal compared to the States. The same thing goes for Northern Plains states like Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota and Montana, and New England states like Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire. I'd never even consider a place like Atlanta or DC, or even Deep South rural areas like Mississippi or Arkansas. I lived in Atlanta as a child, and I got no end of abuse for my race, from both blacks and whites -- blacks belittled me for acting and being "too white," whites didn't like me because I was part black. The South is the only place I've ever been called n****r -- it's never happened up north, and I live in a rural town in what is basically South Dakota.

I'm not "like a white racist." I'm not racist, and I LOVE meeting black people who don't fit the negative stereotypes. But the sad fact is, throughout much of the USA, the majority of blacks DO fit into at least some of the stereotypes -- especially in "black meccas" like Atlanta and DC. Many African-Americans are moving to places like Marshall and Sioux Falls to escape those negative influences and raise their children in a safe, diverse, non-judgmental area.
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Unread 03-21-2011, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,527 posts, read 13,601,632 times
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Still think these are the best cities for blacks to raise their little monsters:

Quote:
Originally Posted by HtownLove View Post
It looks like crap to me. Black kids are best raised in places where there are not a lot of other black kids. All ten of those cities are thus disqualified.

Better list:

1. Boise, ID
2. Fargo, ND
3. Butte, MT
4. Huntington, WV
5. Walla Walla, WA
6. Missoula, MT
7. Dubuque, Iowa
8. Tigard, OR
9. Anchorage, AK
10. Vermillion, SD
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