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Old 03-29-2011, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
24,576 posts, read 29,948,526 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticGermanicPride View Post
i think csa is stupid economically, all it is is being lucky enough to be close enough to another city that you get to "cheat" and add in that other city's gdp.
LOL...further evidence of the total lack of understanding behind the reason for having MSAs and CSAs in the first place. They actually think its a conspiracy to inflate the importance of some places over others-how asenine.

Some people, actually lots of people here need to get a grip.
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:11 AM
 
4,347 posts, read 4,737,574 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
lol. Did they just use a picture of Alexandria for DC?

Someone made a boo boo!
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC NoVA
1,106 posts, read 1,047,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
LOL...further evidence of the total lack of understanding behind the reason for having MSAs and CSAs in the first place. They actually think its a conspiracy to inflate the importance of some places over others-how asenine.

Some people, actually lots of people here need to get a grip.
it's moronic. explain to me why baltimore's gdp should be combined with dc's then. you want asenine? that is asenine. two seperate cities combining their gdp just because they happen to develop into each other's far flung suburbs is asenine.

if there was a city like san jose that happened to be the same distance outside of houston then houston would have a bigger economy. but since san francisco is lucky enough to have another city way down there, its gdp can boost itself above houston and chicago like it's all great? you can explain it all you want, it's stupid. combining two seperate cities outside of the metro area to boost your economy over one city is moronic.
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
24,576 posts, read 29,948,526 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticGermanicPride View Post
it's moronic. explain to me why baltimore's gdp should be combined with dc's then. you want asenine? that is asenine. two seperate cities combining their gdp just because they happen to develop into each other's far flung suburbs is asenine.
Actually development has NOTHING to do with it.

The reason why DC and Baltimore are combined is because between 15%-24.99% of the people in Baltimore MSA work in the DC MSA.

And that equates to BILLIONS of dollars of money flowing out of DC and into Baltimore every year. That affects everything from transportation to retail sales tax to housing growth etc.

Don't you think that is relevant?



Quote:
if there was a city like san jose that happened to be the same distance outside of houston then houston would have a bigger economy. but since san francisco is lucky enough to have another city way down there, its gdp can boost itself above houston and chicago like it's all great? you can explain it all you want, it's stupid. combining two seperate cities outside of the metro area to boost your economy over one city is moronic.
Moronic indeed. Please speak on what you know and not what your ego thinks.
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Boston
1,082 posts, read 1,378,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2e1m5a View Post
Very fair points and I agree to an extent but you have to understand that it is hard for many East Coasters to grasp the idea of San Jose and San Francisco being one metro when Philly and NYC are 1 Hour apart by train and Baltimore and DC are even closer.
Having lived on both coasts, I'd turn this statement around just a touch. People in the SF bay area think their situation in which multiple urban areas overlap is unique, and therefore worthy of some sort of special status. If we were to re-work things in the fashion they support, you'd definitely have to view NYC/Phillie as a single metropolitan region, along with DC/Baltimore. Arguably, all four of those could be considered a single entity, as there is plenty of commuting/commerce/etc. running all the way between DC and NYC. I guarantee there are two income families with commuters working in each of the two end point metros. Boston is a bit further away, so you can't apply this logic to the entire NEC, but certainly a big section of it.
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
24,576 posts, read 29,948,526 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryAlan View Post
Having lived on both coasts, I'd turn this statement around just a touch. People in the SF bay area think their situation in which multiple urban areas overlap is unique, and therefore worthy of some sort of special status. If we were to re-work things in the fashion they support, you'd definitely have to view NYC/Phillie as a single metropolitan region, along with DC/Baltimore. Arguably, all four of those could be considered a single entity, as there is plenty of commuting/commerce/etc. running all the way between DC and NYC. I guarantee there are two income families with commuters working in each of the two end point metros. Boston is a bit further away, so you can't apply this logic to the entire NEC, but certainly a big section of it.
The commuting numbers between NY and Philadelphia are miniscule. Not even in the same planet as the interchange found between DC and Baltimore and SF and SJ.

Which is why DC & Baltimore are combined and so is SF and SJ while NY and Philadelphia are not.

Furthermore, your argument for NY and Philadelphia is even less compelling than the argument for San Francisco and Sacramento-which in and of itself is not very compelling at all.
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:11 AM
 
Location: The City
18,514 posts, read 14,514,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
The commuting numbers between NY and Philadelphia are miniscule. Not even in the same planet as the interchange found between DC and Baltimore and SF and SJ.

Which is why DC & Baltimore are combined and so is SF and SJ while NY and Philadelphia are not.

Furthermore, your argument for NY and Philadelphia is even less compelling than the argument for San Francisco and Sacramento-which in and of itself is not very compelling at all.

Actually as is well documented on here, it missed by .2% in 2000 to bieing one CSA on those commuter rates as join the pthers and very well will be linked as one CSA when the final revised MSA/CSA data are released in 2012
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
24,576 posts, read 29,948,526 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Actually as is well documented on here, it missed by .2% in 2000 to bieing one CSA on those commuter rates as join the pthers and very well will be linked as one CSA when the final revised MSA/CSA data are released in 2012
I don't know what else to say. We've had this conversation over and over and over again.

Mercer County will either go to NY or go to Philadelphia, but its not some sort of crazy glue that will join 2 large CSAs. Sorry. Under the current guidelines its never going to happen. Please go in peace.
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:21 AM
 
Location: The City
18,514 posts, read 14,514,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
I don't know what else to say. We've had this conversation over and over and over again.

Mercer County will either go to NY or go to Philadelphia, but its not some sort of crazy glue that will join 2 large CSAs. Sorry. Under the current guidelines its never going to happen. Please go in peace.

actually I suggest you re-read the guideines and believe it or not i dont really care all that much, it doesnt make real life any different
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Weymouth, The South
775 posts, read 815,247 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
hahahaha...they are combined.

Into a single Combined Statistical Area.
2009

1. New York-Newark-Bridgeport, NY-NJ-CT-PA CSA $1,379,570 Billion
Bridgeport-Stamford-Norwalk, CT Metro Area $78,805
Kingston, NY Metro Area $4,636
New Haven-Milford, CT Metro Area $38,834
New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA Metro Area $1,210,387
Poughkeepsie-Newburgh-Middletown, NY Metro Area $21,499
Torrington, CT Micro Area
Trenton-Ewing, NJ Metro Area $25,409

2. Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside, CA CSA $876.468 Billion
Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana, CA Metro Area $730,941
Oxnard-Thousand Oaks-Ventura, CA Metro Area $34,962
Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA Metro Area $110,565

3. Washington-Baltimore-Northern Virginia, DC-MD-VA-WV CSA $550.549 Billion
Baltimore-Towson, MD Metro Area $138,420
Lexington Park, MD Micro Area
Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV Metro Area $407,463
Winchester, VA-WV Metro Area $4,666

4. San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA CSA $535.327 Billion
Napa, CA Metro Area $7,057
San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont, CA Metro Area $335,563
San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA Metro Area $147,370
Santa Cruz-Watsonville, CA Metro Area $9,969
Santa Rosa-Petaluma, CA Metro Area $19,603
Vallejo-Fairfield, CA Metro Area $15,765

5. Chicago-Naperville-Michigan City, IL-IN-WI CSA $515.119 Billion
Chicago-Naperville-Joliet, IL-IN-WI Metro Area $508,712
Kankakee-Bradley, IL Metro Area $3,054
Michigan City-La Porte, IN Metro Area $3,353

6. Boston-Worcester-Manchester, MA-RI-NH CSA $411.505 Billion
Boston-Cambridge-Quincy, MA-NH Metro Area $298,256
Concord, NH Micro Area
Manchester-Nashua, NH Metro Area $20,865
Providence-New Bedford-Fall River, RI-MA Metro Area $64,341
Worcester, MA Metro Area $28,043

7. Houston-Baytown-Huntsville, TX CSA $363.201 Billion
Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown, TX Metro Area $363.201

8. Dallas-Fort Worth, TX CSA $359.835 Billion
Athens, TX Micro Area
Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX Metro Area $356,615
Sherman-Denison, TX Metro Area $3,220

9. Philadelphia-Camden-Vineland, PA-NJ-DE-MD CSA $354.573 Billion
Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD Metro Area $335,112
Reading, PA Metro Area $14,588
Vineland-Millville-Bridgeton, NJ Metro Area $4,873

10. Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Gainesville, GA-AL $270.856 Billion
Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, GA Metro Area $264.700
Gainesville, GA Metro Area $6,156

11. Miami-Ft Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL Metro Area $252.647 Billion

12. Seattle-Tacoma-Olympia, WA CSA $251.636 Billion
Bremerton-Silverdale, WA Metro Area $8,809
Mount Vernon-Anacortes, WA Metro Area 5,219
Oak Harbor, WA Micro Area
Olympia, WA Metro Area $8,811
Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA Metro Area $228,797

13. Detroit-Warren-Flint, MI CSA $217.394 Billion
Ann Arbor, MI Metro Area $17,583
Detroit-Warren-Livonia, MI Metro Area $185,800
Flint, MI Metro Area $10.816
Monroe, MI Metro Area $3,495

14. Minneapolis-St Paul-St Cloud, MN-WI CSA $197.396 Billion
Minneapolis-St Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI Metro Area $189,801
St Cloud, MN Metro Area $7,595

15. Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ Metro Area $190.725 Billion

16. Denver-Aurora-Boulder, CO CSA $177.511 Billion
Boulder, CO Metro Area $17,581
Denver-Aurora, CO Metro Area $152,868
Greeley, CO Metro Area $7,062

17. San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos, CA Metro Area $171.471 Billion




On the world stage, most of the American 'big boys' are virtual unknowns compared to San Francisco.
hahahaha... they are combined when you decide to change the criteria for your own benefit.

In these circumstance regardless of influence or shared commuters, MSAs are always used and that's what this thread is about. An MSA, as far as I know, uses similar criteria and is all about commuters. I assume there has to be a higher level of commuters and clearly, the entire Bay Area does not meet those criteria, and as such, it is relegated to only being a CSA. I'm sure San Jose and San Fran are quite codependent, and you make a good case as to why they should be one single metro, but they just aren't right now. You can't try and call a CSA a metro when it's just not.

No one would argue that San Francisco and also San Jose don't have huge reputations internationally, of course they do, but reputation doesn't mean most important. In this country, Liverpool has a huge international reputation due to the Beatles, but that doesn't make it any more important as a city than if it lacked that.
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