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Old 03-30-2011, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Weymouth, The South
786 posts, read 876,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by downtown1 View Post
It's debatable, but it makes more sense to me due to the fact that multiple criteria other than GDP have been used to determine the list, not to mention different rankings by well-known institutions. That's why I referred to it as a good read if you'd like to discuss about the so-called "top cities ranked in order of importance".

May I ask you how should we rank D.C?
Well I won't lie, I haven't and probably won't look at that link, so I don't know exactly why DC is at 5, but come on. Every major decision that affects your whole country and therefore the world, is decided there. I dunno, I would just expect it to be 4th.
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC NoVA
1,106 posts, read 1,118,461 times
Reputation: 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by slo1318 View Post
I think thats right, someone else mentioned that SJ was part of metro SF previsouly, which it was. DC/Baltimore is always brought up, but SF/SJ is the worst example in the US of a split MSA. Youve got SF on one side of the Bay and Oakland on the other, both extend south with other municipalities and connect with San Jose. You can drive from SF south down the peninsula through San Jose and north to Oakland with absolutely no breaks in the built up area.
you think there's a break between dc and baltimore? no. the only reason the land from san francisco down to san jose is so developed is due to the little room you have with that 2-5 mile wide piece of developable land along the bay. that doesn't make them the same msa, they're the same csa.
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Old 03-30-2011, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Arroyo Grande, California
5,336 posts, read 3,625,356 times
Reputation: 3139
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticGermanicPride View Post
you think there's a break between dc and baltimore? no. the only reason the land from san francisco down to san jose is so developed is due to the little room you have with that 2-5 mile wide piece of developable land along the bay. that doesn't make them the same msa, they're the same csa.

Yes.
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Old 03-30-2011, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Norman, OK
409 posts, read 499,666 times
Reputation: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryson662001 View Post
I keep seeing "the SF Bay Area" and obviously the two cities have the bay in common but what if there were no bay? Would that make a difference? Why isn't Sacramento part of San Francisco (other than it isn't on the bay)?
I will use 18Montclair's picture which has been used a billion times by him.



Its continuous. Between Sacramento and SF bay area there a lot of empty farm land (and flood plains). Sac and SF bay are however linked pretty closely.

Between SF and Sac... Flood plain, farm land, Davis and the Vacaville outlets!


Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceTenmile View Post
I don't think YOU understand that it matters not one jot how things are in life. Yes people talk about the Bay Area as a whole, but the USCB classes them as separate metros. You wanna take it up with them, do. They may soon become just one metro, but for now, even if you think they should be together, they aren't.
Unlike the East Coast, the west coast is not nearly as populated. The idea of a metropolitan area here is a lot different due to the fact that everything is so sparsely populated. Unlike Philly and NYC which is very populated all the way through, out in the west this is not the case except for SF and LA. One also has to take in consideration the terrain. We have mountains, hills, and areas that can not be developed because the oddly shaped bay. If this weren't the case you can bet everything would be all jumbled into one CSA/
MSA.

So BruceTenmile have you ever lived here? If you had, you would realize how interconnected San Jose and San Francisco are. There is a reason we refer it to the Bay Area.

Sooooo yes of course if you separate SJ and SF then we can't "compete." But like I said before, there are many unique communities such as wine country, tech silicon valley, SF, oakland, SJ, Berkeley and so on which make up the bay area. SF'ers go to these places to have fun because it isn't exactly in SF. SF isn't where everything is at in the bay area.

Sorry I didn't respond earlier. I find it very hard to keep track of every forum I respond to on CD.
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Old 03-30-2011, 09:41 PM
 
Location: The City
19,060 posts, read 15,816,536 times
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^^^ I agree there is cohesion and I also agree that all the amentities and jobs and culture and everything at times are hard to place these strict census lines for comparative purposes. Though one thing on the Bay is that some of places are pretty far but I do agree they are linked.

Philly is another that just gets chopped off by cut lines, yes they dont include the population or gdp beyond that point but these places are completely intertwined and consistently underestimates the size and financial impact and influence of the area.

Here is an image of where the MSA is cut by the census 14 miles from Philly

trenton nj - Google Maps
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Old 03-30-2011, 09:49 PM
 
4,471 posts, read 4,749,895 times
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Charlotte comes in at #25 although it was once #21
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Old 03-31-2011, 02:04 AM
 
Location: Weymouth, The South
786 posts, read 876,454 times
Reputation: 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zachj7 View Post
I will use 18Montclair's picture which has been used a billion times by him.



Its continuous. Between Sacramento and SF bay area there a lot of empty farm land (and flood plains). Sac and SF bay are however linked pretty closely.

Between SF and Sac... Flood plain, farm land, Davis and the Vacaville outlets!




Unlike the East Coast, the west coast is not nearly as populated. The idea of a metropolitan area here is a lot different due to the fact that everything is so sparsely populated. Unlike Philly and NYC which is very populated all the way through, out in the west this is not the case except for SF and LA. One also has to take in consideration the terrain. We have mountains, hills, and areas that can not be developed because the oddly shaped bay. If this weren't the case you can bet everything would be all jumbled into one CSA/
MSA.

So BruceTenmile have you ever lived here? If you had, you would realize how interconnected San Jose and San Francisco are. There is a reason we refer it to the Bay Area.

Sooooo yes of course if you separate SJ and SF then we can't "compete." But like I said before, there are many unique communities such as wine country, tech silicon valley, SF, oakland, SJ, Berkeley and so on which make up the bay area. SF'ers go to these places to have fun because it isn't exactly in SF. SF isn't where everything is at in the bay area.

Sorry I didn't respond earlier. I find it very hard to keep track of every forum I respond to on CD.
Of course I've never lived there, but I thought this issue had been put to bed. I've said I think it SHOULD be one MSA, but it's just not right now. It seems like you basically want one rule for all the eastern MSAs and another for you. San Fran and San Jose don't meet the strict requirements of an MSA, clearly, if they did they'd already be a freakin MSA and we wouldn't be going over and over the same thing. They do meet the CSA criteria so that's what you have. Its not about how it feels. It can feel as interconnected as you like, but if there aren't the right percentage of commuters between the 2 counties, they aren't together.

I totally know what everyone is saying, and I really do agree. I see that they are connected in many many ways and I say again: I can see why you think they should be one MSA, but right now, they just aren't. How many times must I say this. It has nothing to do with whether you've lived there, it only has to do with statistics and the Bay Area does not match up. Please don't make me say the same thing again, there aren't many other iterations of words I can use to say the exact same thing. This just happens to be a time when the rules of MSAs have screwed the Bay Area, I'm sorry, but that's the way it is.
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Old 03-31-2011, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Boston
1,082 posts, read 1,469,384 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticGermanicPride View Post
you think there's a break between dc and baltimore? no. the only reason the land from san francisco down to san jose is so developed is due to the little room you have with that 2-5 mile wide piece of developable land along the bay. that doesn't make them the same msa, they're the same csa.
Yeah, I don't buy that argument either. MSA is not the same as contiguous urban area. There are several MSAs that are contiguous with the Boston MSA, representing one large, continuous built up area (eg Worcester, Providence, Manchester). None of these are as large as San Jose, but collectively they add about 3 million more people.

It's too bad there isn't some method for measuring the phenomenon, some way to group MSAs that co-mingle, maybe some sort of combined statistical area?
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Old 03-31-2011, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Weymouth, The South
786 posts, read 876,454 times
Reputation: 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryAlan View Post
Yeah, I don't buy that argument either. MSA is not the same as contiguous urban area. There are several MSAs that are contiguous with the Boston MSA, representing one large, continuous built up area (eg Worcester, Providence, Manchester). None of these are as large as San Jose, but collectively they add about 3 million more people.

It's too bad there isn't some method for measuring the phenomenon, some way to group MSAs that co-mingle, maybe some sort of combined statistical area?
This^^^^
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