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Old 06-01-2011, 03:58 PM
 
Location: The State Of California
9,147 posts, read 11,696,840 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAX-PHX View Post
Have you ever been to Phoenix Howest? Do you honestly consider it a city that is dominated by cowboy culture and is country in nature? Phoenix and most of AZ was settled by people from places in the upper midwest and back east. TX and OK were settled by southerners. At the very least people in AZ don't talk like people from TX or OK. That is undisputable. Phoenix is within driving distance from LA and somehow you think Phoenix is more influenced by places 1000 miles or more away than it is by it's next door neighbor. I've split time between So Cal and Phx my whole life and at no time have I ever felt a major difference in terms of culture and lifestyle between the two places. I've been to Texas a few times and been through Oklahoma once and it felt very different. Some of the people were nice but the customs, language, lifestyle, etc. were very foreign to me.
I have family in Tucson AZ , and there is a very strong COWBOY
CULTURE in AZ....most Latino both (Central and Southern American)
Identify with the COWBOY CULTURE be they Mexican are farther
Southern Latino Countries......
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Old 06-01-2011, 04:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howest2008 View Post
I have family in Tucson AZ , and there is a very strong COWBOY
CULTURE in AZ....most Latino both (Central and Southern American)
Identify with the COWBOY CULTURE be they Mexican are farther
Southern Latino Countries......
I assure you Phoenix is a lot different than Tucson. I would agree it is definitely more "cowboy like" than Phoenix but still Tucson is more like Albuquerque or El Paso than Dallas or OKC. I would say to me as far as Phoenix is concerned I've always thought of it as part of a greater region with So Cal and So. Nev. As far as the rest of AZ I've always thought of it as part of the Mtn. west. Utah, NM, Colo, maybe El Paso but no other part of Tex. Interior Texas and Okla. have and always will be a completely different region of the country to me. Geographically and culturally.
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Old 06-01-2011, 04:20 PM
 
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I've always thought of the Southwest as the area in between Southern California and Texas... Starting in the desert somewhere east of Palm Springs and ending in the panhandle east of El Paso---which feels more in tune with the desert Southwest.

Southern California has some similarities with the region and the influence of LA is particularly felt in Las Vegas and Phoenix, but in general the environment and culture are different. LA has a more Mediterranean feel, you've got the influence of the coast, and it has different ethnic mix compared with the predominant mix of Hispanics, whites, and Native Americans in the Southwest. The architecture apes classical Spanish/Moorish style, rather than any adobe elements you'd find in New Mexico or Tucson.
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Old 06-01-2011, 04:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deezus View Post
I've always thought of the Southwest as the area in between Southern California and Texas... Starting in the desert somewhere east of Palm Springs and ending in the panhandle east of El Paso---which feels more in tune with the desert Southwest.

Southern California has some similarities with the region and the influence of LA is particularly felt in Las Vegas and Phoenix, but in general the environment and culture are different. LA has a more Mediterranean feel, you've got the influence of the coast, and it has different ethnic mix compared with the predominant mix of Hispanics, whites, and Native Americans in the Southwest. The architecture apes classical Spanish/Moorish style, rather than any adobe elements you'd find in New Mexico or Tucson.
Architecturally you may be right about New Mexico and Tucson but it is not uncommon to find colonial/mediterranean/Santa Barbara type buildings and houses in the valley esp. Scottsdale.
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Old 06-02-2011, 09:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krudmonk View Post
Thanks for setting us straight on California matters, Boston.
You're most welcomed! Glad I could be of service.
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Old 06-02-2011, 02:51 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 16,672,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howest2008 View Post
Why not try it for yourself....I know that Texas and Oklahoma are
not a part of the Desert Southwest , they are "not desert" sic...
, but both (Texas and Oklahoma) "share the heritage" of the
"Cowboy Culture of the Southwest" which The South Does Not
Share....the SOUTH not having a COWBOY and INDIANS Orientation.
You are correct, in a sense...but all this very much has to be qualified.

Yes, Texas (and Oklahoma) have a "cowboy culture." But so does Kansas. Does that fact exclude them from being a Midwestern state?

But to keep going here, the "cowboy tradition of Texas" is a first cousin of the "Old South" cattle drovers. Noteably different from the vaquero herding and tending Mexican tradition of the cowboys in the true West and SW.

In fact, it was a direct result of the "Civil War" that really produced the Texas cowboy. After the fall of Vicksburg, the market to the rest of the South was cut off and the herds of feral cattle multiplied. After the War, it was mostly anglo and black southeasterners who settled Texas. Cattle was a commodity to be taken advantage of, and the life-styles and habits of those early cowboys in Texas were Old South, not Mexican as was the case in NM and AZ. These men were Southern and had Southern ways and attitudes.

On a related tangent, although those old Hollywood "western" movies present it differently, it was not cattle but cotton that was the real "king" in Texas post-bellum era. The cowboy (rightly) has a definite role in Texas history...but it was really the tenant cotton farmer that was the "average Texan".

And like Lax said, there is just a totally different culture/history between the "southwests" of Texas and Oklahoma as that of New Mexico and Arizona. One pair is Southern, the other are Western. By and large, they only share a "Southwestern" kinship, in name only.
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Old 06-02-2011, 06:00 PM
 
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Where I live, we are grouped as the Pacific Southwest.
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Old 06-04-2011, 04:07 PM
 
Location: The State Of California
9,147 posts, read 11,696,840 times
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Default When Is The Next Rodeo In Phoenix......

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAX-PHX View Post
I assure you Phoenix is a lot different than Tucson. I would agree it is definitely more "cowboy like" than Phoenix but still Tucson is more like Albuquerque or El Paso than Dallas or OKC. I would say to me as far as Phoenix is concerned I've always thought of it as part of a greater region with So Cal and So. Nev. As far as the rest of AZ I've always thought of it as part of the Mtn. west. Utah, NM, Colo, maybe El Paso but no other part of Tex. Interior Texas and Okla. have and always will be a completely different region of the country to me. Geographically and culturally.
When is the next scheduled Rodeo for the Phoenix area LAX-PHX????
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Old 06-04-2011, 04:11 PM
 
Location: The State Of California
9,147 posts, read 11,696,840 times
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Default Kansas Has More Of A Farmer Vibe To It.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
You are correct, in a sense...but all this very much has to be qualified.

Yes, Texas (and Oklahoma) have a "cowboy culture." But so does Kansas. Does that fact exclude them from being a Midwestern state?

But to keep going here, the "cowboy tradition of Texas" is a first cousin of the "Old South" cattle drovers. Noteably different from the vaquero herding and tending Mexican tradition of the cowboys in the true West and SW.

In fact, it was a direct result of the "Civil War" that really produced the Texas cowboy. After the fall of Vicksburg, the market to the rest of the South was cut off and the herds of feral cattle multiplied. After the War, it was mostly anglo and black southeasterners who settled Texas. Cattle was a commodity to be taken advantage of, and the life-styles and habits of those early cowboys in Texas were Old South, not Mexican as was the case in NM and AZ. These men were Southern and had Southern ways and attitudes.

On a related tangent, although those old Hollywood "western" movies present it differently, it was not cattle but cotton that was the real "king" in Texas post-bellum era. The cowboy (rightly) has a definite role in Texas history...but it was really the tenant cotton farmer that was the "average Texan".

And like Lax said, there is just a totally different culture/history between the "southwests" of Texas and Oklahoma as that of New Mexico and Arizona. One pair is Southern, the other are Western. By and large, they only share a "Southwestern" kinship, in name only.

Kansas has more of an (Mid-Western Farmer) Vibe to it....and the
people there sure don't talk in that "Cowboy Twang"....as the
vast majority of Texan and Oklahoman do.
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Old 06-05-2011, 05:20 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 16,672,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howest2008 View Post
Kansas has more of an (Mid-Western Farmer) Vibe to it....and the
people there sure don't talk in that "Cowboy Twang"....as the
vast majority of Texan and Oklahoman do.
Absolutely right, which relates to my main point. To wit, just as the "cowboy culture" in Kansas does not exclude them from being a Midwestern state, so neither does the same (cowboy culture) exclude Texas (and Oklahoma for the most part) from being essentially Southern states.

Going by your earlier posts, you seem to say that the existence of the cowboy makes it more of a Southwestern state (as in the sense of a relationship with NM and AZ), than a Southern one. I am rejoinding by saying that even the two cowboy prototyes are different. The Texan being (like in most other historical arenas...no pun intended! LOL) mostly Southern (i.e. Old South drover type) in habits and attitudes, while those of the other states were more derived from that of the Mexican vaquero (i.e. tending and herding). Kansas and Texas shared only in the sense we had them and they bought them! And neither shared much with the SW nor Rocky Mountain States! LOL

In a nutshell, just because there emerged a shared cowboy culture in the frontier after the "Civil War" does not form any basic element to make the post-bellum west a region unto itself. Any more than the ante-bellum Atlantic coast shipping culture make, say, South Carolina and Massachusetts part of the same region.

In fact, your point about the accents illustrates the differences in terms of history and culture. Kansas is a Midwestern state and its settlement patterns and speech pattern bear this out. Texas is essentially a Southern state in terms of the same criteria. As you say, Kansans do not sound much like Texans and Oklahomas...whose speech is (in terms of the whole) are only one of many sub-varities of what is broadly known -- linguistically speaking -- as "Southern American English." And neither group have all that much in kin with the Mountain and SW states...

Hmmmm...did we stray off topic?
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