Brooklyn vs San Francisco (largest, place, population, people)

[Dub King]

I don't want to belittle an important movement that I believe in, yet I think it's important to point out that the discussion has moved out of SF once again and into Berkley. Like I said before, if you want to hop over to the other side of the bay that's cool, but it breaks from this topic's focus on 'pure' San Francisco vs. 'pure' Brooklyn. Like I said earlier, we can go ahead and discuss Brooklyn in the context of the rest of NYC but we all know that tilts the scales too far in Brooklyn's favor and the Cali homers will howl.

OK, in the name of free speech, I am going to belittle it, just a little bit. From wikipedia - "The Free Speech Monument, commemorating the movement, was created in 1991 by artist Mark Brest van Kempen. It is located, appropriately, in Sproul Plaza. The monument consists of a six-inch hole in the ground filled with soil and a granite ring surrounding that hole. The granite ring bears the inscription, "This soil and the air space extending above it shall not be a part of any nation and shall not be subject to any entity's jurisdiction." The monument makes no explicit reference to the movement, but it evokes notions of free speech and its implications through its rhetoric." - Captures the very essence of San Francisco's penchant for idealistic wishful thinking.

Originally Posted by nslander

Stipulated w/r/t multiple incarnation of the FSM. But its impossible to ignore the overwhelming significance of Berkley.

Free Speech Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a fascinating documentary. To those who so lump the decade under one filfthy yurt, it will destroy ALL preconceived notions of how this movement began.

Berkeley in the Sixties (1990) - IMDb

[nslander]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

Yes but to disregard the minions of groups and events that lead to the ability for this to even exist is also extremely short sighted. America is an evolution and at a point and time differnet groups and aspects stick all over the place

From William Penn to Abraham Lincoln to MLK to Rosa Parks etc etc etc (an all in between, after and to come) etc etc. To believe that any single or aspect is all at once more important than the net sum is pure nonesense. That said as part this journey there are many stops of significance including Berkely. Is Berkeley remotely the most important, absolutely not

Who did this and when?

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by nslander

Who did this and when?

Is that a serious ?

The American experiment and all who contributed along the path that is who and when. It is dynamic

[Nineties Flava]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

Yes but to disregard the minions of groups and events that lead to the ability for this to even exist is also extremely short sighted. America is an evolution and at a point and time differnet groups and aspects stick all over the place

From William Penn to Abraham Lincoln to MLK to Rosa Parks etc etc etc (an all in between, after and to come) etc etc. To believe that any single or aspect is all at once more important than the net sum is pure nonesense. That said as part this journey there are many stops of significance including Berkely. Is Berkeley remotely the most important, absolutely not

I don't believe it's "pure nonsense" at all. The difference between the Civil Rights movement in the 60's and that in the 1700's was that the Civil Rights movement was about the rights of all Americans, not just those of white male property owners.

[Dub King]

Tonight I learned it all began in San Francisco during the '60s. Everything I learned in school was a lie, if only I had taken enough LSD I'd have known the truth as well. Talk about lol.

Originally Posted by kidphilly

Is that a serious ?

The American experiment and all who contributed along the path that is who and when. It is dynamic

[RaymondChandlerLives]

The absolute genesis of these various movements may not have originated in San Francisco, but the city played a massive role in spurring them forward. There's a reason why SF is virtually synonymous with liberal politics. The place is as progressive as it gets. Take that, Jay-Z and Foxy Brown, lol.

[RaymondChandlerLives]

Originally Posted by Dub King

Tonight I learned it all began in San Francisco during the '60s. Everything I learned in school was a lie, if only I had taken enough LSD I'd have known the truth as well. Talk about lol.

Tonight I learned that being the second most important borough in NY with regards to hip-hop trumps SF's role in the counter-culture movement.

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by Nineties Flava

I don't believe it's "pure nonsense" at all. The difference between the Civil Rights movement in the 60's and that in the 1700's was that the Civil Rights movement was about the rights of all Americans, not just those of white male property owners.

It continues to evolve even to this day not all rights are equal

On that tact one can easily argue the constitution itself is more important than any single event and my comments are not to belittle or disreagard any single aspect along this journey my point on disregard is that all events and the dynamic process is more to point. to disreagrd te path that leads to even the possibility is without context.

I believe you misunderstand my point of nonesense. it is nonesense to believe the single events are without sweat and tears of those who pave the way. The sum or the parts is greater than the parts by themselves

[nslander]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

Is that a serious ?

The American experiment and all who contributed along the path that is who and when. It is dynamic

Who in this discussion has dismissed any of the history of the movements or actors you identified? The only people in this thread subjected to this attempted murder of history are those of the Bay Area in the 60's, otherwise as marginalized and defined solely as "hippies".

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by RaymondChandlerLives

The absolute genesis of these various movements may not have originated in San Francisco, but the city played a massive role in spurring them forward. There's a reason why SF is virtually synonymous with liberal politics. The place is as progressive as it gets. Take that, Jay-Z and Foxy Brown, lol.

But by no means is SF alone in this regard and to pontificate a purely liberal ideal is as shortsighted as pntificating the virtue and benefit of right winged ideal

Your statement puts forth an ideal as a truth when in reality that is not the case

I am getting far to philosophical here but to proclaim liberal equals progressive is false, actually would fundamentally go against the original ideal in the first place