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Old 09-09-2013, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Maryland
4,266 posts, read 5,473,848 times
Reputation: 4591

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Quote:
Originally Posted by flotard View Post
I think I lost you. When did I make or defend absurd claims? Be specific.
Chicagoans all make up lies about their area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flotard View Post
What really annoys me about Chicagoans are the lies. I mean nobody says come to New York, apartments are cheap, parking space abundant and so forth. Chicagoans on the other hand will simply lie about the lake, about availability of weekend getaways, numbers of theaters in Chicago, foot traffic in downtown in the night... Anything just to boost Chicago's image as a great destination and a viable contender. Have you been to Chicago? Visit and you will see what I am talking about. I am not exaggerating. Just visit and stay for a few days so you'll have time to venture outside of downtown and Chicago proper. You'll see what I saw.
Or that your opinion is the end-all-be-all

Quote:
Originally Posted by flotard View Post
The first lake which is any kind of attraction is lake Geneva. That's two hours. And it's miserable with a tiny, ugly "beach".
Quote:
Originally Posted by flotard View Post
I've have the "pleasure" of visiting. Besides few water parks (indoors/outdoors) there is absolutely nothing interesting unless you like county fair attraction like an upside down house. Horrible place.
Or that somehow the sand dunes that are located on Earth are a vast and different landscape so foreign and unknown to you that they look like they are from another world...

Quote:
Originally Posted by flotard View Post
Ugly. Looks like a landscape from another planet. No, Lake Michigan shore is no jersey shore, Florida or even New England shore. Lake Michigan compared to Atlantic oceans seems dead.
Or that you know the whole population of the planet so well that nobody, NOBODY else could prefer Lake Michigan to the Atlantic Ocean

Quote:
Originally Posted by flotard View Post
You probably the only person alive to prefer Lake Michigan to Atlantic Ocean in NJ. The art of denial. Lol
There's also your ongoing bickering with a select poster about being able to write in complete sentences and spell correctly when you yourself use comma splices and fragments like they are going out of business.

These are all absurd claims, frankly.

This thread was originally about a skyline comparison between the two cities. It has since been pulled into a city-vs.-city quagmire punctuated by incessant back-and-forth bickering among select posters (yourself included), who seem to think their opinion is the only one that could ever be correct.

 
Old 09-09-2013, 09:24 AM
 
399 posts, read 770,998 times
Reputation: 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCH_CDM View Post
I would say, speaking generally, you have no idea what you're talking about.

NJ, BTW, while not my favorite state, is among the two or three richest, best educated states, and, excepting NYC, has some of the best urbanity in the nation. It has some of the best cities and suburbs anywhere in the U.S. (yes Camden is horrible and there are a few others).

But, on the whole, you can hardly do better than NJ in the U.S. Check out the whole Hudson River coastline (pretty much all the towns), as well as Morristown, Summit, Teaneck, Englewood, Ridgewood, Madison, Westfield, Milburn, Maplewood, South Orange, Montclair, Glen Ridge, and many others.

Im being told by someone who lives in California to check out where ive lived 90% of my life?

Ive probably been up and down the Hudson River more times than youve been in and out of the bathroom.


If I dont particularly care for something, then I dont care for it. Its that simple.

There are a million things I hate about my hometown, you gonna try to tell me otherwise about that as well?

Ive been all over the NY metro. I have lived in it. I have many close friends there, and I have family there. When I really look at it, the majority of my time is spent in Manhattan and Brooklyn, and thats it. Thats all I really care for when the chips are down. What are you gonna do, take away my birthday?
 
Old 09-09-2013, 09:54 AM
 
12,636 posts, read 10,483,539 times
Reputation: 17417
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCH_CDM View Post
Yes, CT and NJ are the two richest states by most measures (Maryland is up there too on some metrics, so you could say there are three richest states).

This is why I don't get the hate for NJ. Yes, there are crap areas (like in any other urbanized state), but NJ is one of the richest places on the planet overall. It's mostly middle and upper class suburbia of NYC.
Great posts, PCH_CDM, a lot of facts and truth in them! I will never understand why NJ is so negatively viewed, either, but to be completely honest I do suspect there's a bit of jealousy (I'd also say the same about CT, MD, and the DC and NYC metro areas in general). As you said, NJ is a wealthy state, with great amenities, a good educated workforce, I think flotard asked about pharmaceutical industry and that is true, a lot of major companies are based in NJ, both research and manufacturing.

I will probably get slammed for mentioning jealousy of the state of concrete wasteland, but whatever. I know the truth, and apparently you, flotard, and others that have stuck up for NJ and the NY area in general against these ridiculous claims.
 
Old 09-09-2013, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Maryland
4,266 posts, read 5,473,848 times
Reputation: 4591
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
Great posts, PCH_CDM, a lot of facts and truth in them! I will never understand why NJ is so negatively viewed, either, but to be completely honest I do suspect there's a bit of jealousy. As you said, NJ is a wealthy state, with great amenities, a good educated workforce, I think flotard asked about pharmaceutical industry and that is true, a lot of major companies are based in NJ, both research and manufacturing.

I will probably get slammed for mentioning jealousy of the state of concrete wasteland, but whatever. I know the truth, and apparently you, flotard, and others that have stuck up for NJ and the NY area in general against these ridiculous claims.
NJ is a perfectly fine state. The claims that NJ is a wasteland are incorrect in my opinion. Then again, Chicago was also dubbed a "cesspool." Those claims are also incorrect, in my (and several other people's) opinions.

In the end, NJ doesn't even belong in this debate, since it was supposed to be one about the NYC and Chicago skylines (although Jersey City probably plays a bit into this argument). I think Chicago has the more beautiful skyline, but NYC's skyline is just a sheer, massive block that easily wins in terms of size.
 
Old 09-09-2013, 10:00 AM
 
517 posts, read 560,856 times
Reputation: 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoorSeattle View Post
If I dont particularly care for something, then I dont care for it. Its that simple.
You're missing the point.

It isn't that we disagree with your opinion, it's that you're making statements that are quite obviously factually wrong.

To take one, Newark is surrounded by some of the richest suburbs in the nation. North Jersey is one of the richest, most expensive parts of the nation. So you are factually wrong when you say it's generally blighted or industrial or depressed. North Jersey is about as rich as it gets, anywhere (excepting Manhattan).
 
Old 09-09-2013, 10:27 AM
 
12,636 posts, read 10,483,539 times
Reputation: 17417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maintainschaos View Post
NJ is a perfectly fine state. The claims that NJ is a wasteland are incorrect in my opinion. Then again, Chicago was also dubbed a "cesspool." Those claims are also incorrect, in my (and several other people's) opinions.

In the end, NJ doesn't even belong in this debate, since it was supposed to be one about the NYC and Chicago skylines (although Jersey City probably plays a bit into this argument). I think Chicago has the more beautiful skyline, but NYC's skyline is just a sheer, massive block that easily wins in terms of size.
Well, if we're taking metro regions (which we have been for pages before this), it's relevant but I understand what you're saying. Someone made a claim that NYC is surrounded by cess pools and wasteland and that's simply not even close to true. Just trying to correct that. Chicago isn't a cess pool, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCH_CDM View Post
You're missing the point.

It isn't that we disagree with your opinion, it's that you're making statements that are quite obviously factually wrong.

To take one, Newark is surrounded by some of the richest suburbs in the nation. North Jersey is one of the richest, most expensive parts of the nation. So you are factually wrong when you say it's generally blighted or industrial or depressed. North Jersey is about as rich as it gets, anywhere (excepting Manhattan).
Exactly.

Hate NJ all you want, whatever, plenty of people do as evidenced on this site. But don't make things up about it.
 
Old 09-09-2013, 11:19 AM
 
399 posts, read 770,998 times
Reputation: 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCH_CDM View Post
You're missing the point.

It isn't that we disagree with your opinion, it's that you're making statements that are quite obviously factually wrong.

To take one, Newark is surrounded by some of the richest suburbs in the nation. North Jersey is one of the richest, most expensive parts of the nation. So you are factually wrong when you say it's generally blighted or industrial or depressed. North Jersey is about as rich as it gets, anywhere (excepting Manhattan).
How is what im saying factually wrong? There are tons of cesspools around the NY area. Pockets of concentrated wealth doesnt change that.

Its not really about wealthy neighborhoods either. Its about infrastructure, politics, people, attitude, etc. The blight of North Jersey far outweights any concentrated wealth.

Have you driven around North Jersey lately?

The only thing that Marin, CA and Alpine, NJ have in common are money.

Ill take Marin, thanks.
 
Old 09-09-2013, 11:26 AM
 
517 posts, read 560,856 times
Reputation: 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoorSeattle View Post
How is what im saying factually wrong? There are tons of cesspools around the NY area. Pockets of concentrated wealth doesnt change that.
This, for example, is factually wrong.

The crime rate in the NYC tri-state area is well below the national average.

The poverty rate in the NYC tri-state area is well below the national average.

The vacancy rate in the NYC tri-state area is well below the national average

The level of industrialization in the NYC tri-state area is well below the national average.

So when you say "there are tons of cesspools", the reality is "proportionally, there are fewer cesspols in the NYC area than in all but two or three cities in the U.S." It is a low crime area, a low poverty area, a low vacancy area, and a lightly industrialized area. Really only SF and DC have a fewer proportion of "cesspools". Every other metro has a higher proportion.

And Alpine is nothing like Marin. I don't even know why you would compare the two. Obviously Marin would feel more like the Rivertowns in Westchester, places like Montclair, South Orange, etc. in Jersey, or Westport in CT.

And, in the Bay Area, Alpine would obviously be compared to places like Hillsborough or Los Altos Hills.
 
Old 09-09-2013, 11:30 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,983 posts, read 41,921,149 times
Reputation: 14804
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCH_CDM View Post

The poverty rate in the NYC tri-state area is well below the national average.
Source? That sounds unlikely.

Quote:
The level of industrialization in the NYC tri-state area is well below the national average.
Not sure why that's a positive; assuming it's true, it's because the industry collapsed there. It used to be the largest industrial city in the country, if not the world.
 
Old 09-09-2013, 11:52 AM
 
399 posts, read 770,998 times
Reputation: 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCH_CDM View Post
This, for example, is factually wrong.

The crime rate in the NYC tri-state area is well below the national average.

The poverty rate in the NYC tri-state area is well below the national average.

The vacancy rate in the NYC tri-state area is well below the national average

The level of industrialization in the NYC tri-state area is well below the national average.

So when you say "there are tons of cesspools", the reality is "proportionally, there are fewer cesspols in the NYC area than in all but two or three cities in the U.S." It is a low crime area, a low poverty area, a low vacancy area, and a lightly industrialized area. Really only SF and DC have a fewer proportion of "cesspools". Every other metro has a higher proportion.

The average metro poverty rate is 14.1%.

NYC is 13.8%.

Metros with lower poverty rate:

Baltimore - 11%
Boston - 10.3%
Chicago - 13.6%
Denver - 12.5%
Hartford - 10.1%
Kansas City - 12.4%
Minneapolis-St Paul - 10.9%
Philadelphia - 12.7%
Pittsburgh - 12.2%
Portland - 13.4%
Providence - 13.7%
Raleigh - 12.9%
Richmond - 11.9%
St Louis - 13.3%
Salt Lake City - 13.1%
San Francisco - 10.9%
San Jose - 10.6%
Seattle - 11.7%
Virginia Beach - 10.6%
Washington, DC - 8.4%

Data from American Community Survey, 2010

Looks more than two to me.





Sources for crime rate and vacancy?
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