Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
^^ except for the fact that the majority of those people who lived in the city during those rough years and toughed it out don't necessarily get to enjoy those amenities, as they are getting priced out. The unfortunate cost of gentrification.
See: Brooklyn, Harlem.
And others are sitting pretty. I know some people who are older in their 60s that still pay absurdly low stabilized rent. The New Yorkers missing the old NYC are just having nostalgia about places are no longer there, the same as can be said for almost every other city in the U.S. , the city wasn't actually better. Urban cities across the country are far more livable than they used to be.
Regardless, most native New Yorkers I know and have met bemoan the "new" New York, period. This is a fact.
The people who moved in were not native New Yorkers. It's pretty simple, though even the simplest points seem to whiz right over that top hat of yours.
So your random, biased anecdote ("My Aunt Martha from the Bronx sez crime in the 70's wuz cool") is a "fact", while the Census actual counts should be disregarded? LOL
An anecdote is just that. It's meaningless. I have never met these people who claim they prefer crime and misery.
^^ except for the fact that the majority of those people who lived in the city during those rough years and toughed it out don't necessarily get to enjoy those amenities, as they are getting priced out. The unfortunate cost of gentrification.
See: Brooklyn, Harlem.
Why do you come to this conclusion?
Most NYC renters are rent stabilized. Gentrification has no effect on their rents.
And, obviously, NYC homeowers benefit from gentrification.
And others are sitting pretty. I know some people who are older in their 60s that still pay absurdly low stabilized rent. The New Yorkers missing the old NYC are just having nostalgia about places are no longer there, the same as can be said for almost every other city in the U.S. , the city wasn't actually better. Urban cities across the country are far more livable than they used to be.
I agree about the livability factor, but gentrification comes at a cost. Having gone to college and being friends with many native New Yorkers, many of the people I know can't easily go back home, even if they wanted to. The Bronx is the last borough that had remained largely immune from the forces of gentrification. Everywhere else, the middle and working classes have felt the push of the yuppies and the hipsters. Brooklyn is "cool" now, and places like Court Street have froyo and Trader Joes's, organic everythings, and places to buy fair trade Tibetan mandalas lol.
The problem I have with gentrification is that the end results ARE safer, more livable, and often more exciting. However, our current paradigm seems to suggest that you have to displace those who were already there in order to make this happen.
The only people being displaced are market-rate renters, which is like 30% of the rentals in the city, and overwhelmingly occupied by transplants, immigrants and other newcomers.
In other words, the only people being displaced by gentrification are newcomers (many of them gentrifiers themselves). The vast majority of longtime New Yorkers live in rent stabilized housing.
The only people being displaced are market-rate renters, which is like 30% of the rentals in the city, and overwhelmingly occupied by transplants, immigrants and other newcomers.
In other words, the only people being displaced by gentrification are newcomers (many of them gentrifiers themselves). The vast majority of longtime New Yorkers live in rent stabilized housing.
Let me be more explicit. Immigration has increased the numbers of Asians and Latinos. In-migration has largely fueled a modest increase in whites.
The only population group declining as the rest of the city is growing are Blacks, even with immigration from Africa and the Caribbean. The places that are being most gentrified are traditionally black strongholds in Harlem and Central Brooklyn, which are the exact places that gentrifiers (mostly white) are moving to.
Can I see a source for that?
From what I've read, less than 2% of renters have rent control and less than 50% have rent stabilization.
The vast majority of NYC renters are under some sort of control. Maybe only 50% of renters are under official stablilization/control, but then there's NYCHA, HPD, HDC, Mitchell Lama, SCRIE and all the various programs. Only something like 25%-30% of NYC rents are market rents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakal
That also "locks" you into a building, and the gap between having a rent controlled/stabilized apartment and a market rate unit is significant.
Not necessarily true. Many of the programs are "sticky" meaning you can take the rents with you.
But, in any case, you can't have it both ways. You can't complain that high rents are kicking people out from their longstanding communities, and then simultaneously complain that low rents are locking people into their longstanding communities.
Which is your complaint, exactly? The rents are kicking people out, or the rents are locking people in?
The only population group declining as the rest of the city is growing are Blacks, even with immigration from Africa and the Caribbean. The places that are being most gentrified are traditionally black strongholds in Harlem and Central Brooklyn, which are the exact places that gentrifiers (mostly white) are moving to.
You are right that the black population is declining somewhat in NYC.
But, that said, IMO the black population in NYC isn't declining because of gentrification in Harlem and Bed Stuy.
First, only a very small % of blacks in NYC live in Harlem and Bed Stuy. The biggest black population centers in NYC are Eastern Brooklyn (East NY/Brownsville/East Flatbush), parts of SE Queens, and Wakefield in the Bronx. None of these ares are experiencing signficant gentrification, though some (such as SE Queens) are under pressure from immigration by different ethnic groups.
The vast majority of NYC renters are under some sort of control. Maybe only 50% of renters are under official stablilization/control, but then there's NYCHA, HPD, HDC, Mitchell Lama, SCRIE and all the various programs. Only something like 25%-30% of NYC rents are market rents.
Not necessarily true. Many of the programs are "sticky" meaning you can take the rents with you.
But, in any case, you can't have it both ways. You can't complain that high rents are kicking people out from their longstanding communities, and then simultaneously complain that low rents are locking people into their longstanding communities.
Which is your complaint, exactly? The rents are kicking people out, or the rents are locking people in?
Here's what everything is boiling down to.
New York is becoming increasing unaffordable to those who are not low income or high income. Rent stabilization is one of the few things keeping people in the middle in the city of they so choose. However, even for many of these people, as allowed increases go up and deregulation happening once rent gets above $2500, NYC is becoming unaffordable.
Try seeing what a 2-bedroom apartment rents for in Bed Stuy nowadays. Those who are getting displaced are primarily coming from one group of people. Sorry if that seems strange to me...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
