Ten Best US/Canadian Downtowns (cost, living, rates, compare)

[OyCrumbler]

In terms of vibrancy and energy in and around the downtown/city core area, my guesses:

Tier 1) New York City

Tier 2) Chicago, Philadelphia (great downtown), San Francisco, Toronto

Tier 3) Boston, Los Angeles, Montreal

Tier 4) DC, Vancouver

Honorable mentions: Baltimore, Portland, Seattle

Los Angeles as it is now is somewhat underrated in this topic (spread out metro, but its central core is dense, active, and in some ways vibrant). Canadian cities in general do well for themselves--even small ones like Halifax are pretty awesome.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by Urban_Hippy

Downtown Toronto has somewhere in the vicinity of 1500 restaurants. I really doubt dt. Chicago and S.F. have more. If youre talking quote unquote quality, that is subjective.

Yes, that is subjective and yet Chicago and San Francisco are most often mentioned as 2 of the 3 top culinary cities in North America, New York being the other(of course). Toronto, not so much.

[cpomp]

NYC
San Fran Chicago and Philly tied
Boston


thats my list.

[evissone]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Yes, that is subjective and yet Chicago and San Francisco are most often mentioned as 2 of the 3 top culinary cities in North America, New York being the other(of course). Toronto, not so much.

I wish there is an objective set of criteria for this, but there can't be. I don't know how to rank dining scene in different cities, but I suspect it has a lot to do with diversity.

I am Asian and I know for a fact that Chicago's Asian food not comparable to Toronto, but it may well offer better western cuisine such as Italian and French. Toronto's Chinese food is second to none (better than NYC/SF for sure and maybe on a par with LA), on the other hand, we have little selection of Mexican food. Vancouver excels at Japanese food, but not so much in other ethnic food (Caribbean, Mexican, Spanish?) just because there are few ethnic groups other than white and Asian.

For most people, the existence of something upscale like a Jean George doesn't make a city better. How often do we go to those $200-500 per person restaurants any way? for 95% of the time, we go to affordable places where we pay $10-$50, that should count most.

I have lived in both LA and Toronto for a few years. I can't say for other cities, but LA beats Toronto . You can most definitely get better food of more varieties at a much better price in LA than TO.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by evissone

For most people, the existence of something upscale like a Jean George doesn't make a city better. How often do we go to those $200-500 per person restaurants any way? for 95% of the time, we go to affordable places where we pay $10-$50, that should count most.

Excellent food at an affordable price is precisely where San Francisco excels beyond anywhere Ive ever been to, and Michelin, the world's foremost restaurant guide agrees.

Michelin awards 3,2 and 1 stars to the best and most prestigious restaurants which are usually expensive.

But they also put out a bib-gourmand award that specifically names the best budget restaurants that they defiine as eateries that offer two courses and a glass of wine or dessert for $40 or less.

New York has 95 Bib Gourmand Restaurants
Michelin North America Newsroom (http://us.vocuspr.com/Newsroom/MultiQuery.aspx?SiteName=michelin&Entity=PRAsset&S F_PRAsset_PRAssetID_EQ=678723&XSL=Release&IncludeC hildren=True - broken link)

San Francisco has 74 Bib Gourmand Restaurants
Michelin North America Newsroom (http://us.vocuspr.com/Newsroom/MultiQuery.aspx?SiteName=michelin&Entity=PRAsset&S F_PRAsset_PRAssetID_EQ=691771&XSL=Release&IncludeC hildren=True - broken link)

Chicago has 46 Bib Gourmand Restaurants
Welcome to the MICHELIN Guide Chicago 2011 Bib Gourmand restaurants

And according to Michelin:
The volume of Bib Gourmand restaurants in San Francisco makes the city a global leader in culinary value.

As far as street foood, a craze that started in California and is now sweeping the nation is haute cuisine served in food carts and catering trucks at rock bottom prices. That is the ultimate in budget dining.

And its a testament to the depth of the Bay Area's food scene that outlying cities and towns and suburbs have incredible restaurants as well.

There are Michelin Star Rated and Bib Gourmand restaurants in not only the City, but also the North Bay, East Bay and South Bay and that is unheard of for any Michelin guide in the world for an entire region to be so strong outside of the central city.

In any event, I dont doubt that Toronto has excellent food as well.

[BigLake]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Excellent food at an affordable price is precisely where San Francisco excels beyond anywhere Ive ever been to, and Michelin, the world's foremost restaurant guide agrees.

Michelin awards 3,2 and 1 stars to the best and most prestigious restaurants which are usually expensive.

But they also put out a bib-gourmand award that specifically names the best budget restaurants that they defiine as eateries that offer two courses and a glass of wine or dessert for $40 or less.

New York has 95 Bib Gourmand Restaurants
Michelin North America Newsroom (http://us.vocuspr.com/Newsroom/MultiQuery.aspx?SiteName=michelin&Entity=PRAsset&S F_PRAsset_PRAssetID_EQ=678723&XSL=Release&IncludeC hildren=True - broken link)

San Francisco has 74 Bib Gourmand Restaurants
Michelin North America Newsroom (http://us.vocuspr.com/Newsroom/MultiQuery.aspx?SiteName=michelin&Entity=PRAsset&S F_PRAsset_PRAssetID_EQ=691771&XSL=Release&IncludeC hildren=True - broken link)

Chicago has 46 Bib Gourmand Restaurants
Welcome to the MICHELIN Guide Chicago 2011 Bib Gourmand restaurants

And according to Michelin:
The volume of Bib Gourmand restaurants in San Francisco makes the city a global leader in culinary value.

As far as street foood, a craze that started in California and is now sweeping the nation is haute cuisine served in food carts and catering trucks at rock bottom prices. That is the ultimate in budget dining.

And its a testament to the depth of the Bay Area's food scene that outlying cities and towns and suburbs have incredible restaurants as well.

There are Michelin Star Rated and Bib Gourmand restaurants in not only the City, but also the North Bay, East Bay and South Bay and that is unheard of for any Michelin guide in the world for an entire region to be so strong outside of the central city.

In any event, I dont doubt that Toronto has excellent food as well.

I think Bib Gourmand is a good baseline to use, but remember this was the first year Michelin did a Chicago review. The "number" of ranked restaurants increases precipitously between the first and second issues. Also, the review was almost entirely done in the city proper (very few suburban restaurants reviewed in the Chicago area). I expect there will be a large increase for Chicago in the next iteration. I think Michelin has been doing SF for several years now (3?). Not surprising since SF is a great dining destination.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by BigLake

I think Bib Gourmand is a good baseline to use, but remember this was the first year Michelin did a Chicago review. The "number" of ranked restaurants increases precipitously between the first and second issues. Also, the review was almost entirely done in the city proper (very few suburban restaurants reviewed in the Chicago area). I expect there will be a large increase for Chicago in the next iteration. I think Michelin has been doing SF for several years now (3?). Not surprising since SF is a great dining destination.

I was going to say that.

Chicago did splendidly for its first Michelin book.

Also, if I could just kidnap Grant Achatz....LOL.

[Acajack]

I have to say that Montreal is being seriously underestimated on this thread.

If the criteria are energy and vibrancy (sheer numbers of people walking around on the streets, dining in restaurants or having a drink in cafés or bars, and other stuff going on), an honest case could be made for Montreal being number 2 behind NYC.

I have been to almost all of the cities people have mentioned and none of them except for NYC have the consistent crowds that you see on evenings during the week, late at night and on Saturday and Sunday afternoons that you see in many central parts of Montreal.

As for dining, Montreal I believe actually more restaurants in total numbers than a city like Toronto and other big U.S. cities, and apparently has more restaurants per capita than any city in North America or perhaps the world.

Seriously, one cannot have ever been to Montreal, Toronto and Philadelphia if one says that there are more people out and about and there is more stuff going on on an average day of the year in more areas of downtown Toronto or Philadelphia than in Montreal.

The main street in Montreal, Rue Ste-Catherine, beats pretty much any street in North America outside of NYC for constant "vibrancy" and "energy".

[jbear182]

Originally Posted by supermanpansy

I don't know if the article that you responded to, was for me. I didn't mean 3x the size of Toronto. And I don't recall saying that. Toronto is actually bigger downtown wise than Chicago. Chicago is taller, but there are far more highrises in Toronto. So that ends that. As far as San Francisco, I do think Chicago is definately more than two times San Francisco. If you go by highrises alone, it is almost three. But I understand a city is not just highrises. However, the bulk look that you get from cities usually comes from this in my mind. So as to which feels bigger and by how much,-I think Chicago feels much bigger than San Francisco. Just my opinion.

I had Atlanta originally over Philly because of their initial skyline. Phillys is better though and I have been to both. I just forgot about Philly. However, Atlanta is not a slouch. Philly wasn't allowed to build a ton of buildings super tall. That is also pretty evident of the lack of very tall skyscrapers. But Philly is alot like NY and Boston as far as they have such a nice mix of old and new highrises. And Philly is fairly dense. Whereas Atlanta seems more newer, for lack of a better word. I prefer the older types of cities. They seem to have more character.

How do you figure Toronto has more highrises? How do you define highrises? Over 600 feet Chicago has 20 and Toronto has 6. Please explain and prove.

[jbear182]

In fact according to this link:
List of cities with most skyscrapers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chicago has 341 buildings over 150 meters and Toronto has 216. I do love Toronto. Have had some wonderful times there. Perhaps one of my top three favorite cities.