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There is quite the pedestrian feel but it is too much the novelty and your points on the lack of office/residential make it to one dimensional IMHO to be considered with many others or even in reality as a great DT. Honestly how many folks could legimately see themselves, working, residing, and playing (well obviously a great place to play) on an everyday basis. From this perspective someone could make a similar argument for the Wildwood NJ boardwalk (though even more preposterous), loaded with hotels, things to do and busy day and night.
Is LV a fun and active and busy place, most definately does it belong in a comparsion to the real world and a DT environment, to me not so much
Like I said in a previous post if you can get past the manufactured tourist element, the Strip offers quite a lot. Clearly you cannot get past that element, I can. There are residents and condo tower in the area, just not as concentrated like other downtowns. Another reason I put Vegas up there is the type and quality of amenities it has, which a place like Wildwood, NJ could never begin to compare with. Just look at all the upscale amenities it has, more so than some of the best downtown's in the country.
Like I said in a previous post if you can get past the manufactured tourist element, the Strip offers quite a lot. Clearly you cannot get past that element, I can. There are residents and condo tower in the area, just not as concentrated like other downtowns. Another reason I put Vegas up there is the type and quality of amenities it has, which a place like Wildwood, NJ could never begin to compare with. Just look at all the upscale amenities it has, more so than some of the best downtown's in the country.
Yeah, the LV strip has 5 stand alone Louis Vuitton stores.
Like I said in a previous post if you can get past the manufactured tourist element, the Strip offers quite a lot. Clearly you cannot get past that element, I can. There are residents and condo tower in the area, just not as concentrated like other downtowns. Another reason I put Vegas up there is the type and quality of amenities it has, which a place like Wildwood, NJ could never begin to compare with. Just look at all the upscale amenities it has, more so than some of the best downtown's in the country.
On aneminities, yes for shopping (especially very high end hell last time in vegas my hotel had a ferrari or mazaratti cant remember dealership in the hotel), dinning, nightlife, some facets of entertainment (albeit very good) but beyond the lack of residential (yes some people do actually live there) and lack of office space (though there are many employed byt the broader casino/enetrtainment industry) it lacks on many other aspects of amentities such as fine, museums, and to me it also lacks an identity in many ways. on Wildwood i agree preposterous mybe AC would have been a better example as it has more of the amentities you referenced including nightlife, shows, restaurants, high end shopping just on scale about 40% that of LV but would also not make a case for AC in the same respect.
I do see your point and maybe i cant get past that to me it feels like a weekend indulgence and not a place to call home. For how well it does on high end amentities it also does extremely poorly on some basic amenities (grocery stores etc.).
On aneminities, yes for shopping (especially very high end hell last time in vegas my hotel had a ferrari or mazaratti cant remember dealership in the hotel), dinning, nightlife, some facets of entertainment (albeit very good) but beyond the lack of residential (yes some people do actually live there) and lack of office space (though there are many employed byt the broader casino/enetrtainment industry) it lacks on many other aspects of amentities such as fine, museums, and to me it also lacks an identity in many ways. on Wildwood i agree preposterous mybe AC would have been a better example as it has more of the amentities you referenced including nightlife, shows, restaurants, high end shopping just on scale about 40% that of LV but would also not make a case for AC in the same respect.
I do see your point and maybe i cant get past that to me it feels like a weekend indulgence and not a place to call home.
The Las Vegas strip also has tons of great food options, TONs of shows, concerts, tons of bars, tons of nightclubs, tons of flashy signs and the place is a nonstop party 24/7...it might be all fabricated by huge corporations but it certainly accomplishes its end quite nicely.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,990,056 times
Reputation: 7333
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillies2011
rankings are crowd pleasers in that it gives one city clear superiority over another. It allows people to either revel in someone agreeing that their city is tops or ruffling the feathers of another city's denizens who perceive your ranking as a slight. So while they are fun and all I think that breaking the downtowns into tiers you can find a lot more accuracy.
Top Level:
NYC - unmatched. huge. vibrant. dense. No one else is on this level.
Incredible DTs:
These downtowns are all great. Each has flaws that hurt them, but these flaws are small in relation to their positives. A great time could be had in any of them.
Boston
Chicago
Philadelphia
San Francisco
Just missing a little something:
Great downtowns that either suffer from not being a vibrant and dense as some of those above it, or conversely they have the vibrancy just not at the size of those in the tier above. Others may have dts where parts of it are great... but suffers from a lack of cohesion and dead spots.
Baltimore
New Orleans
Seattle
Washington D.C.
Missing a bit more:
Same problems as above but more glaring, overall still solid downtowns.
Atlanta
Austin
Denver
Los Angeles
Miami
Minneapolis
Portland
Fringe Downtowns
I would say all these cities have "good" downtowns but at this point we're getting close to the negatives outweighing the positives, that or they are just not large enough to compete
Cleveland
Cincinnati
Houston
Las Vegas
Pittsburgh
Salt Lake City
San Antonio
San Diego
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,990,056 times
Reputation: 7333
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly
On aneminities, yes for shopping (especially very high end hell last time in vegas my hotel had a ferrari or mazaratti cant remember dealership in the hotel), dinning, nightlife, some facets of entertainment (albeit very good) but beyond the lack of residential (yes some people do actually live there) and lack of office space (though there are many employed byt the broader casino/enetrtainment industry) it lacks on many other aspects of amentities such as fine, museums, and to me it also lacks an identity in many ways. on Wildwood i agree preposterous mybe AC would have been a better example as it has more of the amentities you referenced including nightlife, shows, restaurants, high end shopping just on scale about 40% that of LV but would also not make a case for AC in the same respect.
I do see your point and maybe i cant get past that to me it feels like a weekend indulgence and not a place to call home. For how well it does on high end amentities it also does extremely poorly on some basic amenities (grocery stores etc.).
Nah, I think there is valid points in observation about Las Vegas. There is no doubt that it is vibrant, walkable, exciting, upscale, and has everything (in terms of material things) one could ever want or need if you have the money to buy it.
The observation though that it is all manufactured is true too as Las Vegas (most especially the Strip) owes it's entire existence to one industry and one industry alone. However, and this is where things get weird, is that Las Vegas has it own legitimate organic culture specific to Las Vegas and is by no means sterile.
For the point of this discussion though, Las Vegas should be excluded. There is nothing abou the Strip that can be compared to any other place in America or the World. It's off in it's very own corner so to speak.
I've been to Vegas in the middle of summer several times and the streets are always packed outside despite the heat. And at night, they are even more packed. People take their time and stroll along the strip and don't rush from air conditioned casino to air conditioned in my experience.
And if you are considering the strip downtown I'd place it much higher because few downtown's offer as many amenities although it's lacking in residential population and office space.
I'd place San Diego in the tier above, def offers just as much if not more than Miami and is on par with Denver. It also offers more for middle class and upper class types than downtown LA, which primarily caters primarily to low-income Latinos except for a few areas.
There are tons of people on the strip during the day and especially during the night. My description of people rushing from one air conditioned casino to the next is a bit of an exaggeration. At the same time though the same things that make the strip so amazing and different are in other ways it's negatives. Sure every high end chef in the world has a restaurant there, sure every high end store in the world is located in las vegas. it's super unique in that way. but come on, none of these stores or restaurants were started there. there's nothing organic. it can feel very fake and opportunistic . and while it may not matter to some, the lack of residential housing really detracts when start comparing it to more fleshed out downtowns, not to mention the fact that is also missing other cultural amenities such as museums.
honestly though while it may seem like i'm trashing las vegas a bit, the place is super unique and in my original response I was actually defending las vegas' inclusion on this list as a lot of people seem to think that it doesn't belong. I think it belongs... i just think it has a ways to go before it's truly among the elite downtowns in america.
san diego on the other hand i could def see in the tier above the one I placed it in. i went back and forth on it and in the end placed it in the "fringe" tier but could easily see it in the tier above. again though as it's one of the downtowns i've yet to see, it was hard for me to make that decision. if people familiar with the city agree it belongs in the above tier i'd def buy that.
Top Level:
NYC - unmatched. huge. vibrant. dense. No one else is on this level.
Incredible DTs:
These downtowns are all great. Each has flaws that hurt them, but these flaws are small in relation to their positives. A great time could be had in any of them.
Boston
Chicago
Philadelphia
San Francisco
Just missing a little something:
Great downtowns that either suffer from not being a vibrant and dense as some of those above it, or conversely they have the vibrancy just not at the size of those in the tier above. Others may have dts where parts of it are great... but suffers from a lack of cohesion and dead spots.
Baltimore
New Orleans
Seattle
Washington D.C.
Missing a bit more:
Same problems as above but more glaring, overall still solid downtowns.
Atlanta
Austin
Denver
Los Angeles
Miami
Minneapolis
Portland
Fringe Downtowns
I would say all these cities have "good" downtowns but at this point we're getting close to the negatives outweighing the positives, that or they are just not large enough to compete
Cleveland
Cincinnati
Houston
Las Vegas
Pittsburgh
Salt Lake City
San Antonio
San Diego
I like it. I'd probably add Indianapolis to fringe downtowns though.
rankings are crowd pleasers in that it gives one city clear superiority over another. It allows people to either revel in someone agreeing that their city is tops or ruffling the feathers of another city's denizens who perceive your ranking as a slight. So while they are fun and all I think that breaking the downtowns into tiers you can find a lot more accuracy.
Top Level:
NYC - unmatched. huge. vibrant. dense. No one else is on this level.
Incredible DTs:
These downtowns are all great. Each has flaws that hurt them, but these flaws are small in relation to their positives. A great time could be had in any of them.
Boston
Chicago
Philadelphia
San Francisco
Just missing a little something:
Great downtowns that either suffer from not being a vibrant and dense as some of those above it, or conversely they have the vibrancy just not at the size of those in the tier above. Others may have dts where parts of it are great... but suffers from a lack of cohesion and dead spots.
Baltimore
New Orleans
Seattle
Washington D.C.
Missing a bit more:
Same problems as above but more glaring, overall still solid downtowns.
Atlanta
Austin
Denver
Los Angeles
Miami
Minneapolis
Portland
Fringe Downtowns
I would say all these cities have "good" downtowns but at this point we're getting close to the negatives outweighing the positives, that or they are just not large enough to compete
Cleveland
Cincinnati
Houston
Las Vegas
Pittsburgh
Salt Lake City
San Antonio
San Diego
great summary! I'd make a few edits though:
Move Miami to a fringe downtown
Move San Diego up one category
I'd also add Richmond into fringe downtowns (they've had lots of impressive growth in the past decade)
Does Vegas even qualify as a fringe downtown?
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