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Philly already has light rail in its suburbs, it also has heavy rail in the form of PATCO, even then people mostly just use them for work and school. People just dont go out and waste money like they used to. If you need to hop on a train to go a few blocks, than you are a lazy mofo. Most places even in the burbs are built so you can walk to any necessity if need be, but they also accomodate the car, and most people drive, so there you have it. Now the McMansion subdivisions of the exurbs are a different story, but nobody living out there has to or wants to walk anywhere, if they could go the rest of their lives without seeing another human except for their family, that would be a dream come true for them.
Is Philly's light rail in the suburbs outside city limits? Can people get by without a car in the places your speaking about like they can in Boston proper or Philly proper? I know we are talking about culture here also. I don't know if people in the Philly metro outside city limits are used to getting around without a car since Septa heavy rail transit doesn't leave the city. Are there people in the Philly suburbs that live without cars by choice and use commuter rail to get around?
As for the KoP vs CC goes, it comes down to jobs, and MontCo is significantly more business friendly than Philly, hence the dilemma.
Is it really a competition though? Center City is a major downtown. How can KoP compete with the access downtown gives. I know in DC, 3 corporations in the last two months have announced they will be moving into downtown from their suburban office parks. Everything is shifting downtown these days. I would think KoP would be losing ground because of the lack of transit etc. Most businesses are relocating along metro lines in DC and I would think Philly is the same way right?
I think a combination of modes is ideal. But I don't think commuter rail can get you a couple blocks like light rail can. Heavy rail is expensive and almost nobody is building it. So light rail is the only option for neighborhood to neighborhood travel. To truly get away from the car lifestyle, I think transit needs to address trips to the store, restaurants, friends house, even colleges etc.
Heavy rail is the obvious choice for city limits in Philly and NYC but for their suburbs to emulate that, they need a cheaper alternative. Wouldn't light rail allow for the same lifestyle and transit access in the suburbs their core city downtown's offer? I wouldn't include DC in this since it's the only city that builds heavy rail way into the suburbs. San Fran's Bart isn't really for San Fran proper and Atlanta's Marta barely leaves city limits into the suburbs. I brought up DC's light rail lines because he/she asked about our transit system but I don't think DC's transit network fits this since it already goes into the suburbs.
I don't use light rail on a daily basis so I don't have the same experience as people in your cities. I was just wondering which design is better for urban living in the suburbs since light rail is the big thing these days. What do you think about the plans for light rail in King of Prussia? Do you think it will hurt center city like the other guy said? I would think they offer completely different things.
On KOP, it is a very large job center already, one of the largest perimeter job centers in the country. Transit is awful in KOP. There are discussions on both adding back the 422 corrider line to Reading which would be Regional Rail and running a branch of the Norristown High Speed line through parts of KOP. Sadly none was done or integrated with a perfect opportunity in the new Village at Valley Forge community now under construction which will also have more than 4,000 high desnity residential units in addition to new retail and commercial space. But on the whole the vast majority of the of the corrider is auto focused and would have many difficulties to integrate a highly valuable transit system. KOP developed mostly because it contains intersections of 4 major highways (76, 276, 202, 422 and is only 3 miles from 476). KOP I kind of like Tysons from 2000 with more sprawl and less density.
Village at Valley Forge (http://www.mypinwheel.com/accounts/pw_05132001/links/index2.html - broken link)
Linking this through the new development would have been a great addition, and further down 202 toward Great Valley anoter very large job center including 14K employees at Vangaurd Financial alone, but nothing has been done.
The station above is only 3 miles from the new development link above, this Light Rail line links with both Heavy Rail MFL at 69th street and with regional rail at multiple stops
On the whole over the last 50 years Philly has done a horrible job in the region with integrated TOD
Is Philly's light rail in the suburbs outside city limits? Can people get by without a car in the places your speaking about like they can in Boston proper or Philly proper? I know we are talking about culture here also. I don't know if people in the Philly metro outside city limits are used to getting around without a car since Septa heavy rail transit doesn't leave the city. Are there people in the Philly suburbs that live without cars by choice and use commuter rail to get around?
In certain areas yes (Norristown is one area that comes to mind though is not the most desireable area for most, Media would be a more desirable area along the Light rail lines where this can easily be done), though the car is still more dominant
Many people also live without cars along certain regional rail lines (Bala, Ardmore, Bryn Mawr, Wayne, Paoli, Abington, Jenkintown) as well, or in Jersey along the PATCO lines (Camden, Haddonfield, Cinnaminson).
On KOP, it is a very large job center already, one of the largest perimeter job centers in the country. Transit is awful in KOP. There are discussions on both adding back the 422 corrider line to Reading which would be Regional Rail and running a branch of the Norristown High Speed line through parts of KOP. Sadly none was done or integrated with a perfect opportunity in the new Village at Valley Forge community now under construction which will also have more than 4,000 high desnity residential units in addition to new retail and commercial space. But on the whole the vast majority of the of the corrider is auto focused and would have many difficulties to integrate a highly valuable transit system. KOP developed mostly because it contains intersections of 4 major highways (76, 276, 202, 422 and is only 3 miles from 476). KOP I kind of like Tysons from 2000 with more sprawl and less density.
Village at Valley Forge (http://www.mypinwheel.com/accounts/pw_05132001/links/index2.html - broken link)
Linking this through the new development would have been a great addition, and further down 202 toward Great Valley anoter very large job center including 14K employees at Vangaurd Financial alone, but nothing has been done.
The station above is only 3 miles from the new development link above, this Light Rail line links with both Heavy Rail MFL at 69th street and with regional rail at multiple stops
On the whole over the last 50 years Philly has done a horrible job in the region with integrated TOD
So they don't plan to do this anymore? Did they leave a right of way in the new development for a light rail expansion? Why don't they think rail transit is important for this area?
This is definitely one of the most lopsided comparisons I've seen a awhile. Philly and Boston are just on a completely different level than Dallas and Portland on Commuter rail. Also The Philadelphia and Boston are the only two area to have all of the five major types of transit vehicles: regional (commuter) rail trains; "heavy" rapid transit (subway/elevated) trains; light rail vehicles (trolleys); electric trolleybuses; and motor buses. There just no way the Dallas area and Portland area can even compete with infrastructures like that.
So they don't plan to do this anymore? Did they leave a right of way in the new development for a light rail expansion? Why don't they think rail transit is important for this area?
$'s, NIMBYs, Old long established and developed infrastructure are the main causes
I wont go on the DC rant, but we cant get the funds that come to the DC area whether direct or indirect from the Gov't stimulas/subsidy, no other area does, comparing to DC is silly on these aspects. SEPTA is broke before building new infrastruture and Fed money gets less and less every year, while the metro gets boost payments to pay for maintence etc.
Honestly the dollars are the biggest issue
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