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Old 08-31-2011, 11:08 AM
 
Location: The City
22,379 posts, read 38,665,395 times
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Old 08-31-2011, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,495 posts, read 32,760,188 times
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what does this have to do with the southern big 3???
 
Old 08-31-2011, 11:34 AM
 
Location: The City
22,379 posts, read 38,665,395 times
Reputation: 7974
Quote:
Originally Posted by HtownLove View Post
what does this have to do with the southern big 3???

posted in wrong thread
 
Old 08-31-2011, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,495 posts, read 32,760,188 times
Reputation: 7752
lol, silly goose
 
Old 08-31-2011, 01:27 PM
 
815 posts, read 1,848,760 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polo89 View Post
How do people get around up North in those really frigid temps?
The subways are often underground, and you don't sweat while waiting where you would need to change your clothes. Also the subway stops are heated from around Nov-March. Are the southern cities going to provide a/c for people waiting? You can take off your coat/scarf/jacket to work, and still be comfortable. But if you are out there for 30 minutes or so waiting and walking around in the baking sun, not too many people want to wear a change of clothes that are an office worker. A lot of the more traditional forms of economy down south before white collar jobs became more prevelant, it is pretty common for people to not wear a shirt.
Cold temps in terms of being comfortable and prepared for business are much easier to deal with than hot temps.
The southern extremes were always much more underpopulated and farming oriented until a/c and cars came around and modern medicine came in. Most of FL for instance was a huge malaria zone.
There is no doubt the northern cities are much more hospitable for humans to live in sans modern technology. It isn't just the south but places like Phoenix/Las Vegas also...
 
Old 08-31-2011, 02:05 PM
 
4,819 posts, read 6,043,297 times
Reputation: 4600
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsimms3 View Post
I'm going to waste some more of my time in these damn threads, but I think I am qualified to speak broadly about each city, having closed deals in each one.

Houston is definitely the densest metro, by far, of the three. That is no question. Then comes Dallas, and pretty far behind is Atlanta. Having a dense metro does not mean anything in regards to urbanity or dense "core".

Houston has an extremely dead downtown, slightly better than Dallas. Dallas at least has nearby Uptown and Deep Ellum, both literally adjacent, but Deep Ellum is far from dense and Uptown is built like many of Atlanta's further out business districts (thinking Vinings, etc). It is not particularly walkable, but adds more life to the immediate area.

Houston has nice "districts", particularly towards the south in the Medical Center and Rice/West University Place area. These are basically similar to what Atlanta has going on to the east of the city center.

The reason Atlanta city is more urban than the other two is because everything is concentrated between midtown and downtown, there are more residents, more retail, far more restaurants, more clubs/bars, more entertainment options, more college students, just generally more of everything in a much more walkable environment. While Peachtree is no Michigan Ave or Walnut or Newbury or Broadway, it is closer to these streets than any other street in these cities, and can't really be called dead like the streets in Dallas and Houston.

Dallas builds everything away from its downtown, in separate "islands" of mid-rises, surrounded by seas of parking and jogging trails. Houston is gridded, but oddly walled off everywhere, and without zoning or building regulations is killing its own potential. Atlanta's core is a very active core, and even the Walkability Score indicator places Atlanta far and ahead of the other two. This is evident to anyone who has experienced all 3 cities.

An example of why Dallas is not going to ever become "urban" in the traditional sense is lying in their first major CBD condo development, ever. The Museum Tower is like a gated oasis amongst giant cultural centers that hardly address the street. The area's vibe will never pick up because of the new 45 floor tower. Atlanta's CBD developments OTOH, for which there are many, all address the street and add to the activity, promoting people to walk. Atlanta already has far more condo and hotel and mixed-use towers than Dallas and Houston and is seen more as a proven high-rise living city than the other two, even with our huge bubble.
When Texans think of Atlanta they think of neighborhoods like Druid Hills or Cascade Heights where there’s very large Home, and no type of grid at all. And they’re quick to point out how they don’t have many neighborhoods like that in DFW or Houston, but when Atlantans say are core is more urban they act like they can’t comprehend.

http://clatl.com/imager/width/b/original/1447529/b54b/img_mapoverview2.jpg When I say core I'm mean Downtown/Midtown and neighborhoods that surround them pretty much the neighborhoods that touch or inside Atlanta belt line projected.

Downtown
Midtown

Cabbagetown
East Atlanta
Edgewood
Grant Park
Home Park
Inman Park
Kirkwood
Oakland
Old Fourth Ward
Ormewood Park
Reynoldstown
Summerhill
Sweet Auburn
Virginia-Highland
Pittsburg
Mechanicsville.
Summerhill
Peoplestown
West end

Cabbagetown - Google Maps

Beside Downtown and Midtown ATL are right next to each other. Around Houston and Dallas Downtown's are these loops freeways, and while adjusted but not all around are a lot of warehouses but I must add Dallas has a uptown but it's not like Midtown ATL never the less though. While Atlanta just have the Grandy Curve and the Downtown connector, adjusted to DT and MT are Atlanta's most urban neighborhoods.

If you look at the Historic Houston wards that touch Houston’s Downtown you can add sixth if you wanted too at what point, or how many have a feel like any of the Atlanta intown neighborhoods I name? Most of Houston and Dallas looks like Atlanta’s Brookwood Hills excepted with a grid, that’s neighborhoods close and far from their Downtowns. So when ever there’s a urban conversation between these cities pop up something about a grid a lot size pop up.

Basically posters have been saying Houston and Dallas are more Urban because they have more neighborhoods like this excepted in a grid.

Brookwood Hills - Google Maps

but when Atlantans say are core is more urban it's a argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
Some Atlanta posters believe Houston is way behind their city in urban development and I don't understand why.
Because Atlanta is putting more eggs in lesser baskets than Dallas and Houston. Houston and Dallas are taking on a wide grid. Atlanta leaders are trying to infill that should been more urban. Dallas and Houston are building roads and freeways in new areas later in which they would probably try to infill.

A poster said something uncorrected, Atlanta infrastructure is lay out more traditional urban. Boston is a lot older than Atlanta but have you notice Boston’s Metropolitan is hopscotch rather than LA which is continuous that cause a need for more roads, freeways and etc The error with Atlanta from Boston is instead building up core areas Atlanta Started sprawling in areas that not supported by any where close to the infrastructure in the sense of the way Atlanta is built. So put more people at point A and provide good transportation infrastructure to get to point B. Instead stead of making A.B.C and providing good transportation infrastructure E.F.G. that’s what Texas cities are doing.
 
Old 08-31-2011, 07:14 PM
 
2,419 posts, read 4,696,926 times
Reputation: 1317
The Sunbelt is too conservative to take the steps necessary, like public transit, to create a dense urban core, most of the residents of these cities would have a serious fit, if driving and owning a car downtown was made prohibitively expensive like in the more urban cities. However, all the pavement and asphalt that is needed to accommodate all those cars is an environmental issue due to the way it stores heat.

One last thing I always wondered was how people too poor for cars survive in these places. If you were to get your license suspended, how would you live, begging for rides?
 
Old 08-31-2011, 07:26 PM
 
14,256 posts, read 26,789,930 times
Reputation: 4560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfieldian View Post
The subways are often underground, and you don't sweat while waiting where you would need to change your clothes. Also the subway stops are heated from around Nov-March. Are the southern cities going to provide a/c for people waiting? You can take off your coat/scarf/jacket to work, and still be comfortable. But if you are out there for 30 minutes or so waiting and walking around in the baking sun, not too many people want to wear a change of clothes that are an office worker. A lot of the more traditional forms of economy down south before white collar jobs became more prevelant, it is pretty common for people to not wear a shirt.
Cold temps in terms of being comfortable and prepared for business are much easier to deal with than hot temps.
The southern extremes were always much more underpopulated and farming oriented until a/c and cars came around and modern medicine came in. Most of FL for instance was a huge malaria zone.
There is no doubt the northern cities are much more hospitable for humans to live in sans modern technology. It isn't just the south but places like Phoenix/Las Vegas also...
In the 21st century, it isn't that hard getting around in the Heat down here. Most buses, trains, etc, are air conditioned. Warm weathered places like Florida are more suitable to deal with Heat than places up North. There aren't as many deadly heat-waves down there as there are up North.
 
Old 08-31-2011, 07:31 PM
 
14,256 posts, read 26,789,930 times
Reputation: 4560
Quote:
Originally Posted by killakoolaide View Post
The Sunbelt is too conservative to take the steps necessary, like public transit, to create a dense urban core, most of the residents of these cities would have a serious fit, if driving and owning a car downtown was made prohibitively expensive like in the more urban cities. However, all the pavement and asphalt that is needed to accommodate all those cars is an environmental issue due to the way it stores heat.

One last thing I always wondered was how people too poor for cars survive in these places. If you were to get your license suspended, how would you live, begging for rides?
You do know they have city buses down here. And of the cities down here(and out West) that do have commuter trains, and the light-rail lines, they run through poor areas. Do you think it's just a bunch of poor people who stay at home 24/7, 365, that go absolutely nowhere? I understand you may not live down here but give me a break...
 
Old 08-31-2011, 07:45 PM
 
37,784 posts, read 41,454,075 times
Reputation: 27037
Quote:
Originally Posted by killakoolaide View Post
The Sunbelt is too conservative to take the steps necessary, like public transit, to create a dense urban core, most of the residents of these cities would have a serious fit, if driving and owning a car downtown was made prohibitively expensive like in the more urban cities. However, all the pavement and asphalt that is needed to accommodate all those cars is an environmental issue due to the way it stores heat.

One last thing I always wondered was how people too poor for cars survive in these places. If you were to get your license suspended, how would you live, begging for rides?
Sunbelt cities themselves aren't conservative for the most part; the suburbs are another story however. Furthermore, as I stated before, the necessary conditions do not exist anymore for Sunbelt cities to create dense urban cores in the same vein as the cities of the Northeast; that era has simply passed (however, most are getting their fair share of contemporary urban infill). And since these cities are developing in the age of the automobile, densifying and urbanizing will not occur in such a way as to make the primary mode of transit nationwide prohibitively expensive. It simply doesn't make sense. Concessions simply must be made for cars, even as has happened in the denser Northern cities, albeit on a different and smaller scale. The parking garages in the urban cores of those cities aren't exactly 100 year old structures.
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