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Old 02-15-2010, 01:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReluctantGardenStater View Post
Actually, this is a question I've contemplated in my own mind for some time, so I'm happy to see this thread resurface.

In my opinion, it's a contest between Ohio and Missouri.

Ohio generally gives off the "All American" image. It has a blend of Northeastern and Midwestern cultures, and even a bit of a Southern feel (in southern Ohio). It gave I believe seven or eight U.S. presidents. Its cities remind me the most of "generic American city" (especially Cleveland and Columbus, but also Cincinatti). Even its flag is red white and blue!

I think the other major challenger is Missouri. It is literally the crossroads of America, the gateway between east and west. It has influences from the North/Midwest, the South, and examples of mountain culture and influence from the plains. Its cities (St. Louis and Kansas City) also strike me as perfectly American. Mark Twain set his fictional books on stories in historical/19th century Missouri here, and Walt Disney was inspired by its all-American small town feel.
I've never been to KC but St. Louis did strike me as the most All-American place I've ever been.
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Old 02-15-2010, 01:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polo89 View Post
EXACTLY!!! That's what I was trying to say. You don't have to HATE the history of the South. But just ACCEPT that there were things in that history that were inhumane and wrong. That's all.
I follow your general idea, but I have a few problems here:

A) Alleged descendants of slaves asking for reparations, as if they are entitled to anything because an ancestor was a slave, and as if the person they are demanding it from is at all connected or responsible other than his race.

2) Issues like slavery being rehashed not out of genuine concern, but to be used as a propaganda weapon to slam the South. I've seen and heard it happen a million times.
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Old 02-15-2010, 02:01 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
A difficulty for Southerners is that the standard and conventional view of Southern history/culture tends to say "its distinct characteristics are largely due to slavery and racial segregation."

Many of its unique characteristics really are due to the racial issues, but there are certainly other things too. Archaic cultural traits of Southern England have a strong significance. In a strange way Disney's Robin Hood is weirdly authentic by having them act like American Southerners. Parts of the US South, before 1980 at least, arguably are more like Medieval England than any place currently in England. (For good and ill) It still had countryside, substantial forests, powerful sheriffs, the church as a significant presence in life, etc. I'm not even sure if English people still say things like "yonder" as much as people I knew back home did. (Not that any Appalachian Southerners really talked in Elizabethan or Stuart-era English understand) And there's also the Scottish/Irish elements, the folk culture, etc.

Also the destruction of say the Plains and Californian Indians is really more on the North as is the exploitation of the Chinese. Not to say the South was uninvolved in either thing, the Trail of Tears was due to Southerners, but they were somewhat less involved. Outside of maybe Louisiana the Chinese I don't think played that big of a role in the South. Every place has its shameful legacies I suppose. Even the Sioux themselves, I seem to recall, were pretty tough on the Pawnee.
Very interesting analysis, Thomas.

I'm quite an Anglophile myself
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Old 02-15-2010, 02:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReluctantGardenStater View Post
I follow your general idea, but I have a few problems here:

A) Alleged descendants of slaves asking for reparations, as if they are entitled to anything because an ancestor was a slave, and as if the person they are demanding it from is at all connected or responsible other than his race.

2) Issues like slavery being rehashed not out of genuine concern, but to be used as a propaganda weapon to slam the South. I've seen and heard it happen a million times.
Those are exceptions of course. Like donating to charity, some of that money goes to the wrong people and is stolen. You have to understand there was no official apology for Slavery, some of them deserve to get theres, and there ancestors need to be respected. And yes some of it is used as propaganda to hate the South. But it happened in the North also. Anytime someone comes at you to criticize the South just remind them it happened in the North also.
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Old 02-15-2010, 03:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polo89 View Post
Those are exceptions of course. Like donating to charity, some of that money goes to the wrong people and is stolen. You have to understand there was no official apology for Slavery, some of them deserve to get theres, and there ancestors need to be respected. And yes some of it is used as propaganda to hate the South. But it happened in the North also. Anytime someone comes at you to criticize the South just remind them it happened in the North also.
Well I don't think someone will come at me personally to attack the South as I live in the North (unfortunately ), but I know a good many people who equate slavery with Southerners whipping and torturing blacks while laughing maniacally and sipping a mint julip.

This is a problem.
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Old 02-15-2010, 02:49 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,240,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReluctantGardenStater View Post
I follow your general idea, but I have a few problems here:

A) Alleged descendants of slaves asking for reparations, as if they are entitled to anything because an ancestor was a slave, and as if the person they are demanding it from is at all connected or responsible other than his race.

2) Issues like slavery being rehashed not out of genuine concern, but to be used as a propaganda weapon to slam the South. I've seen and heard it happen a million times.

A) Many, possibly most, blacks consider that unrealistic. However you still seem to be trying to say in this that slavery was somehow okay. When the English first arrived in the colonies they used indentured servants, often white, as much or more than slaves. The first slaves tended to be American Indians. It's not really established that there's something natural or necessary in creating a race of slaves and creating it by taking people across the Atlantic. There is no ancient tradition of such a thing. The closest thing to one is the Celtic thralls of the Icelanders being sent to Greenland or wherever. However the thralls were freed in the twelfth century or so. The idea of Christians enslaving fellow Christians was also somewhat disapproved of in times past. Christian slaves were to be compliant in the hopes of gaining respect and penance, but traditionally if the master converted there was some hope of manumission. This is part of why slavery declined as Europe Christianized. American slavery seemed to go against this (Granted a potentially larger reason slavery went into some decline in the Medieval period is that the costs of overseers versus the profit from slavery made it less economic)

B) This is somewhat true, but I've read things by blacks who are probably just as willing to talk about the slaves of New Jersey as anything. (Slavery persisted in NJ relatively long. They pursued a gradual emancipation system that meant a few thousand were apparently still slaves in 1830 and total abolition did not occur until 1846 or so) Even if you feel slavery is justified it kept them in a disadvantageous position compared to most other groups.

3) We are risking getting off topic on this matter.
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Old 02-15-2010, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Back home in Kaguawagpjpa.
1,990 posts, read 6,840,387 times
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No State is "All-American" or "Most American" simply because of this:


Notice there are 50 stars that represent each State coming together as a Union; not 49 stars and one GIGANTIC mega star representing 49 States one 1 "All-American" State.
As of this moment, our military boys and girls are out in Afghanistan and Iraq fighting for each other and most off all, fighting for this Union.
I'm sure the Taliban or Al-Qeada isn't going to say "Don't shoot him, he's from California! Shoot that guy! He's from Idaho, the most American of all States!"
ALL states are "All-American". Nuff said.

Last edited by SilkCity0416; 02-15-2010 at 09:00 PM.. Reason: Changed the picture.
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Old 02-15-2010, 08:49 PM
 
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The most all-American state is the one that has Americans in it.
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:43 PM
 
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I'd say Texas
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Old 02-16-2010, 06:12 AM
 
14,006 posts, read 21,961,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkCity0416 View Post
No State is "All-American" or "Most American" simply because of this:
Notice there are 50 stars that represent each State coming together as a Union; not 49 stars and one GIGANTIC mega star representing 49 States one 1 "All-American" State.
As of this moment, our military boys and girls are out in Afghanistan and Iraq fighting for each other and most off all, fighting for this Union.
I'm sure the Taliban or Al-Qeada isn't going to say "Don't shoot him, he's from California! Shoot that guy! He's from Idaho, the most American of all States!"
ALL states are "All-American". Nuff said.
LOL nice.
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