Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I am a new member on this forum and I just looked at the same thread created last year by 18Montclair and guess what? The Philly posters were going loco in there to just as they are in here and every other thread regarding or not regarding Philly. Irony is that its the same Philly posters.
That's got less to do with the city and everything to do with one or two individual's insecurities. Oh, to live such a trouble-free life so as to be able to expend energy getting worked up about the definition of a region's CMSA in the context of GDP discussions.
There is nothing to deal with but reality. You are mad and we understand that but you need to focus on your own city, your own MSA, and your own CSA. Maybe if you stopped being so jealous, you would realize that GDP has nothing to do with you owning a house or keeping your job in Philly. It's really not that serious in the grand scheme of things when it comes to your real life. Enjoy your day and don't let something like GDP bother you at work.
I agree GDP means little in real life and I personally don't care about CSA's as I am generally only interested in the major cities proper and have no interest in suburbia however, he is correct in that in real life Trenton, NJ is completely connected and influenced by Philadelphia-it has always been that way. I mean it is only 15 miles from Northeast Philly.
This is why CSA seems flawed for Philly. For other cities it may work perfectly in gauging their sphere of influence. Philadelphia and New York is a unique area being that they are the closest cities in the country with over 1 Million population each. But in real life I assure you The Lehigh Valley, Mercer County and Atlantic City/Ocean County/Cape May County are considered part of the greater Delaware Valley, i.e. Philadelphia. Anyone that is from New York or Philly will tell you the same.
The comparison of sub-categories I find interesting is this one, the metro areas:
Boston-Cambridge-Quincy, MA-NH Metro Area $313,690
San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont, CA Metro Area $325,927
Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD Metro Area $346,932
I also find it amazing that the GDP of silicon valley (San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA Metro Area $168,517) is only half that of the other metros, even with all those big-shot tech companies.
The tech companies are allover the Bay Area, not just in the Valley, plenty in SF these days too, in Oakland, and on up to even Santa Rosa. Sure the concentration is in SV but there is that kind of stuff everywhere.
I agree that eventually Seattle will surpass Miami but I also took a recent look at the thread you created last year only to find that Seattle was much closer to Miami's size then as opposed to now.
11. Miami-Ft Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL Metro Area $252.647 Billion
12. Seattle-Tacoma-Olympia, WA CSA $251.636 Billion
Bremerton-Silverdale, WA Metro Area $8,809
Mount Vernon-Anacortes, WA Metro Area 5,219
Oak Harbor, WA Micro Area
Olympia, WA Metro Area $8,811
Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA Metro Area $228,797
Seattle-Tacoma-Olympia, WA CSA $248.322 Billion
Bremerton-Silverdale, WA Metro Area $8,797
Mount Vernon-Anacortes, WA Metro Area 5,258
Oak Harbor, WA Micro Area
Olympia, WA Metro Area $8,833
Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA Metro Area $225,434
Having said that, I may have been premature in that prediction as it turns out Miami had a growth rate of +1.01% and Seattle's was +1.02%.
I agree GDP means little in real life and I personally don't care about CSA's as I am generally only interested in the major cities proper and have no interest in suburbia however, he is correct in that in real life Trenton, NJ is completely connected and influenced by Philadelphia-it has always been that way. I mean it is only 15 miles from Northeast Philly.
This is why CSA seems flawed for Philly. For other cities it may work perfectly in gauging their sphere of influence. Philadelphia and New York is a unique area being that they are the closest cities in the country with over 1 Million population each. But in real life I assure you The Lehigh Valley, Mercer County and Atlantic City/Ocean County/Cape May County are considered part of the greater Delaware Valley, i.e. Philadelphia. Anyone that is from New York or Philly will tell you the same.
So how does a calculated GDP by the census bureau effect Philly? The economic advantage for Philly from area's like Trenton are the same whether it's included in NYC or Philly. So what is the big deal? Is it a bragging rights thing? I mean, if it's bragging rights, then people need to find a hobby and a life. That is pathetic.
"A phoney misleading category manufactuctured in Washington so that Washington can appear somewhat relevant to its peers NYC,LA,Chi"
Ummm...paranoid much?
"From what I have been told from very reputable sources its merely political manuevering to capitalize on federal employees receiving a higher cost of living allowance being attached to NYC."
Where are these reputable sources?
Philly posters, well specifically rainrock, you have to take the good with the bad. You can't tout the benefits of being so close to NYC and DC, w/o sometimes having those 2 more powerful cities infringe on your territory... In another world yes you might have a bigger CSA, everybody agrees...but then you wouldn't be between NYC and DC either and part of the biggest megalopolis in the country for those weekend trips which are always touted as a Philadelphia advantage... So pick one or the other, what do you want? We get it! But it's getting rather annoying in EVERY SINGLE THREAD to keep bringing that into the picture.
NYC and DC have better jobs period. People are going to commute to those jobs period. When more people commute from a specific area, that is when one county goes one way into a different CSA. There is no "phoney misleading category". Sure these people might have cultural/media allegiance to Philly, but their job is in Manhattan. The CSA is about commuting patterns, not whether they are Flyers fans.
Anyway, I thought the CSA's were calculated using the same formula everywhere, if you lost an area to NYC, that must mean more commuters are going to NYC from there. Am I missing something here? I don't see what you are arguing about. It's as if the Census Bureau whipped up a specific "Philly Phormula" to slight you.
Last edited by Garfieldian; 09-13-2011 at 10:51 AM..
So how does a calculated GDP by the census bureau effect Philly? The economic advantage for Philly from area's like Trenton are the same whether it's included in NYC or Philly. So what is the big deal? Is it a bragging rights thing? I mean, if it's bragging rights, then people need to find a hobby and a life. That is pathetic.
I'm not sure if it effects Philly or not. Possibly with government grants, etc but I doubt it. And like I said, either way I'm fine with the Philly CSA-it's not like I spend time in Wilmington, DE or even Trenton. It's more of a confusion thing than bragging rights for me as to why areas would be included with NYC when NYC residents themselves would never recognize them as part of the metro and residents from the areas do not identify with NYC. \
But again this is a very rare area in the country and one could possibly make the arguement that NYC, Philadelphia, Baltimore and DC are actually one Mega-CSA considering the complex commuting patterns in the area and public transit cohesiveness. This will probable become even more evident when the High Speend train lines from Philly-NYC and Philly-DC are built.
I'm not sure if it effects Philly or not. Possibly with government grants, etc but I doubt it. And like I said, either way I'm fine with the Philly CSA-it's not like I spend time in Wilmington, DE or even Trenton. It's more of a confusion thing than bragging rights for me as to why areas would be included with NYC when NYC residents themselves would never recognize them as part of the metro and residents from the areas do not identify with NYC. \
But again this is a very rare area in the country and one could possibly make the arguement that NYC, Philadelphia, Baltimore and DC are actually one Mega-CSA considering the complex commuting patterns in the area and public transit cohesiveness. This will probable become even more evident when the High Speend train lines from Philly-NYC and Philly-DC are built.
As far as CSA goes, why wouldn't NYC recognize them. This is simple math folks. You guys repeated arguments about "something else" makes you come off kind of loony. New Haven shares more in common with the rest of New England than it does NYC, but I don't see them throwing a fit... and insert tons of other cities across the country. It's just the census, it's all numbers, nobody is slighting anybody.
I understand why CSAs exist but I have never thought they were a good measure of a metro area. For example St Cloud isn't really part of the Twin Cities, it is a satellite city 60 miles from the core. Many CSAs have examples like that - Providence, Ann Arbor, Boulder, etc. I think MSAs are a better measure of a metro.
Looking at the CSA populations for our cities does make us feel good though.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
