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It's general knowledge that most cities in the midwest, and in the New England states have continued to bleed population ... including Boston
and Massachusetts. This is what a decimating "recession" does to cities.
Cleveland was always an industrial goliath; however, just like Detroit, Chicago, Buffalo, Philadelphia, Boston and Pittsburgh, we shed sizable portions of our "city population" as many flocked to cities like Dallas, Atlanta, Charlotte or Phoenix.
Kind of right, kind of not. The main reason for all these Northeastern/Midwestern cities for losing city proper population was actually from white flight, and not emigration to Sunbelt cities. That's a recent phenomenon.
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Now, the population drain has leveled off quite considerably in Cleveland. It is a fact that many are making a return to Cleveland, in addition to new first time residents.
I know of so many who left Cleveland ... only to see a great many of them return, just as I have.
Really? Stats don't seem to be supporting your argument since you lost the second-highest percentage of citizens in your history this last decade. Even your metro lost population, one of the very few in the country.
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So, pointing out Cleveland's population losses mean very little in this argument ... unless you include Boston as well. Many don't realize that the majority of population losses in the city limits of Cleveland, actually shifted to our vast suburban areas. Some of the fastest and most widely acclaimed suburbs in America belong to Cleveland.
The difference is that Boston has actually been steadily gaining population since the 1980 census.
Your constant mocking of the Filene's project is both annoying and sad. Yes it sucks that Downtown Crossing has a big hole in it, but Boston's doing just fine. We have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the nation (Cleveland is doing very well too), and last year we added the third most jobs (http://articles.boston.com/2011-02-03/bostonworks/29337575_1_job-growth-online-job-ads-unemployment-rate - broken link) behind Dallas and DC. We could have much larger problems than the eyesore at DTX.
Wow, some of you Bostonians are being very rude and pathetic. I have lived/live in both cities and love them, ableit in Boston for only about a year. Boston wins obviously because it is a much bigger and has an older history. With that, they have been able to gain a lot of great ammenities with that long and rich history.
I now live in Cleveland, and I can't begin to tell you how underrated it is here. Cleveland should be competing with the likes of Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, or Baltimore. Boston competes with Chicago or San Francisco. Cleveland has a top-notch research university in Case Western, and its hospital system is a world class facility in University Hospital systems. I don't think I need to explain the Cleveland Clinic. Because of this large and booming medical field, Cleveland is building a brand new convention center and medical mart downtown to bring in people from around the world to showcase new medical technologies. Thanks to Cleveland's diverse economy in not only the medical field, bio tech, and medical technologies, it was a first choice to build such a mart.
Where do you begin on the cultural aspect of things? Playhouse Square is the second largest theatre district in the country, the Cleveland Orchestra is a "top 5" right up there with Boston, and the Cleveland Museum of Art is a fine establishment that recieves over $600 million in endowment annually; people in Cleveland love their art and the expansion the museum is currently going through shows that. The Cleveland Museum of Contemporary Art aka MOCA is also under construction right now. If you head into the University Circle neighborhood, you see construction everywhere. In the Cleveland sub-forum we have a thread that talks about all the happenings and how booming the neighborhood is. I think half the reason you see people doubting Cleveland's art and cultural scene is because people just don't know and refuse to look up facts, and I have already seen several people in this thread state that they have/had no clue Cleveland offered so much. Shocking people have no idea how underrated Cleveland is....
Cleveland has an unemployment rate well below the national average, is extremely livable, has a park system to die for. From the metro parks which literally wrap around the city like a necklace, and I have a national park 40 minutes away from my house here in Rocky River (30 minutes from Downtown Cleveland). I have always seen Cleveland as a smaller version of Boston or Chicago. It is definatly gaining ground and international attention in the bio tech and research field like Boston, and has a similar Great Lakes layout like Chicago. Cleveland offers light and heavy rail all throughout the city and suburbs, museums that can compete with much larger cities, and several fortune 500 companies that call the area home. A booming downtown with construction going on everywhere (the Midwest's second largest downtown population), a restaurant scene that kicks a$$, and the variety in city neighborhoods is great! I always travel for work, and my company (if I am not flying) gets my rental cars for me and picking them up at the airport is not a hassle for me because I can leave my car in the garage and take the transit right down to the airport from my house. Cleveland has a very extensive rail system that is very easy to use. Walkable and urban neighborhoods not only in the city, but throughout its terrific inner ring suburbs.
I love Boston. I have lived all over, and Boston and Cleveland rank as my two favorite places to live. I am kind of shocked to hear how pathetic and just downright rude some of the posters on here are being. I could never talk down about Boston, and it is even worse if some people haven't been to either city. Cleveland is just underrated, extremely so. I guess as the economy diversifies even more and much more international attention is paid to the city, the billions of dollars worth of projects going on just downtown alone minus the billions being spent in other areas of the city are finished, maybe some people on here won't be as ignorant towards Cleveland. Like I said, Boston has had a much longer history that has gained them much prominence, and well deserved at that. Boston wins in most categories on here because they are older and twice as big. If you were comparing Cleveland to Milwaukee, that'd be a different story. In my opinion, you don't get too many exceedingly terrific cities like Cleveland and Boston in this country.
Sometimes I wonder what it would be like if you combined the 3C's in Ohio as one, and put them in Cleveland's location. You would have a city of 1.5 million people, and we still would have other cities like Toledo with almost 300,000 and Akron with 200,000 in the state. If you were to combine the 3C's metro area populations, you would have over 6.4 million people. Maybe then comparing Cleveland to Boston would be more plausible. To give you an idea, we still have other large metro areas in Dayton/Springfield with over 1 million, Akron/Canton with 1 million, and Toledo with 670,000. Ohio has many cities spread throughout the state, and considering how much we have, and what Cleveland offers is pretty damn impressive because it competes with other cities in the state for money. Cleveland can hold its own and looks for no sympathy from anyone, and continues to build a strong and prosperous looking future.
I am rooting for Boston as well, and if anyone talks down about any city, I will be there to defend them. I guess ignorance should be expected on C-D though...
I am going to re-post this again. Btownboss, get off your high horse and stop downgrading Cleveland. John, please stop with the constant sugar-coating of Cleveland. You both sound really bad right now.
You're right, I'm a big time "homer" and for great reasons too! To correct you, downtown Cleveland is not dominated by surface parking lots ... I never suggested that it was. Whatever gave you such a silly idea?
I have been to Boston for business and pleasure. Boston is a lovely, historic city ... but; in no way at all, did I find it to be anything more special than the city that I call home. I've seen that hideous lookin' hole in downtown Boston ... it makes me wonder who is running city hall in your city?
How is a developer permitted to just leave a huge hole in the center of the city ... FOR OVER FIVE YEARS???
Cleveland is a wonderful city BUT it cant compare to Boston because on a city level its 2/3 the size of Boston, on the MSA level its 1/2 the size of Boston and on the CSA level its 1/3 the size of Boston.
Whos running your city hall, you lost nearly 1/5 of your popuilation in 10 years.
Boston Lost 180,000 Cleveland lost 4x that much, and Cleveland lost 17% of its Population over the last 10 years, and Boston gained 6%.
Boston has a national Park within City limits, Boston Harbor Islands, and Better everything you listed.
Stop. You have come into the Cleveland forum to troll before, you do nothing but put Cleveland down, and it is very evident you know nothing about Cleveland. Secondly, once again, that is not a national park. You want a national park, Cleveland has one a short drive from downtown. And just because a city is declining in population doesn't mean it is dead or dying.
Cleveland should be compared to Milwaukee or St. Louis. Boston is an older cities with a much older history. It has grown through time and with time has gained prominence. Cleveland can hold its own pretty damn well though. We are home not just to the Cleveland Clinic (I am tired of just hearing about the Cleveland Clinic), but home to University Hospitals which is booming as well right now. They are linked to Case Western University which is an amazing university. Cleveland is also home to Playhouse Square, The Cleveland Museum of Art, The Cleveland Orchestra (all of which are known on a GLOBAL scale), plenty of fortune 500 companies, a bustling downtown with billions going on not just downtown but all over the city. I love being able to ride the rapid transit anywhere in the city and suburbs, and just got home tonight from St. Louis and was able to take the train from Hopkins International back to my house. No car needed.
It is pathetic that we have to continue to fight for what Cleveland has to offer without being put down. We offer more than most cities our size and twice our size. I lived in Boston and loved it, but now I live in Cleveland and love it here just as much. I have the big city ammenities, a great park system, one of the largest freshwater lakes in the world at my doorstep, and a very diverse economy to be proud of.
Pretty much all the posters from Boston are not a problem at all, Btownboss spews idiocy everywhere when they talk about Cleveland. Seriously, not warranted at all. I would suspect a Boston vs Chicago thread and a Cleveland vs St. Louis thread. I love both cities and would stick up for them, but to put Cleveland down like some have is just pathetic. Nobody knows anything about Cleveland, and it is very evident in this thread.
Stop. You have come into the Cleveland forum to troll before, you do nothing but put Cleveland down, and it is very evident you know nothing about Cleveland. Secondly, once again, that is not a national park. You want a national park, Cleveland has one a short drive from downtown. And just because a city is declining in population doesn't mean it is dead or dying.
Cleveland should be compared to Milwaukee or St. Louis. Boston is an older cities with a much older history. It has grown through time and with time has gained prominence. Cleveland can hold its own pretty damn well though. We are home not just to the Cleveland Clinic (I am tired of just hearing about the Cleveland Clinic), but home to University Hospitals which is booming as well right now. They are linked to Case Western University which is an amazing university. Cleveland is also home to Playhouse Square, The Cleveland Museum of Art, The Cleveland Orchestra (all of which are known on a GLOBAL scale), plenty of fortune 500 companies, a bustling downtown with billions going on not just downtown but all over the city. I love being able to ride the rapid transit anywhere in the city and suburbs, and just got home tonight from St. Louis and was able to take the train from Hopkins International back to my house. No car needed.
It is pathetic that we have to continue to fight for what Cleveland has to offer without being put down. We offer more than most cities our size and twice our size. I lived in Boston and loved it, but now I live in Cleveland and love it here just as much. I have the big city ammenities, a great park system, one of the largest freshwater lakes in the world at my doorstep, and a very diverse economy to be proud of.
Pretty much all the posters from Boston are not a problem at all, Btownboss spews idiocy everywhere when they talk about Cleveland. Seriously, not warranted at all. I would suspect a Boston vs Chicago thread and a Cleveland vs St. Louis thread. I love both cities and would stick up for them, but to put Cleveland down like some have is just pathetic. Nobody knows anything about Cleveland, and it is very evident in this thread.
IT is a national Park, it is a national Recration area upkept by the National Park Service, its as much a national Park as the Cape Cod National Sea shore, and Boston beats Cleveland in Every Catagory, not Because cleveland is terrible, but a Metro of 4.6 million will offer more than a Metro of 2.5 million.
For istance Boston has 2 MOA's Cleveland has One Boston has 2 globally Known Orchestra (BSO and BPO) Cleveland has 1, because Cleveland is 1/2 the size of Boston
IT is a national Park, it is a national Recration area upkept by the National Park Service, its as much a national Park as the Cape Cod National Sea shore, and Boston beats Cleveland in Every Catagory, not Because cleveland is terrible, but a Metro of 4.6 million will offer more than a Metro of 2.5 million.
For istance Boston has 2 MOA's Cleveland has One Boston has 2 globally Known Orchestra (BSO and BPO) Cleveland has 1, because Cleveland is 1/2 the size of Boston
Am I a broken record? Am I talking to a wall? I have stated several times that Boston is a city twice the size of Cleveland, and a metro area over twice the size of Cleveland, I would expect better ammenities in Boston. Adding to that a terrific history that Boston has, makes it one of the most culturally diverse cities in North America. For Cleveland's size though, it can just about compete with any city in North America when it comes to cultural institutions.
Cleveland's metro area has about 2.1 million. If you add the Akron metro it comes in at about 2.8 million.
Am I a broken record? Am I talking to a wall? I have stated several times that Boston is a city twice the size of Cleveland, and a metro area over twice the size of Cleveland, I would expect better ammenities in Boston. Adding to that a terrific history that Boston has, makes it one of the most culturally diverse cities in North America. For Cleveland's size though, it can just about compete with any city in North America when it comes to cultural institutions.
Cleveland's metro area has about 2.1 million. If you add the Akron metro it comes in at about 2.8 million.
Anyway How would you like it if I made a Cleveland vs Des Moines Poll, its dumb, Cleveland wins in every catagory, so why Bother, that is what this thread is but Cleveland is in Des Moines Slot.
i voted for cleveland because i like it better. boston, unlike nyc, is not worth the cost of living. boston is overpriced and overrated.
I thought Boston was the most underrated city in the megaopolis. Philly is nice, but just doesn't compete with Boston. If people truly explored Boston, they would be amazed not only by the history, but the amazing neighborhoods that dot the city. Gee, same thing could be said about Cleveland, but who would know anything about it when people refuse to look into it. I think half the reason why people see Cleveland they way they do is because of the sports teams here. The Browns, Cavs, and Indians are terrible. LeBron left, and Cleveland could give two sh**s (but ESPN still loves to talk about talents), and the Browns up and left Cleveland and haven't done anything since. America is a sports crazy nation, and sports really reflect on a city. I think if Cleveland had good sports teams, we would reach a bigger base of people who actually saw how underrated Cleveland is. I am not just talking about all the new developments going on, or all the people investing in the city, or what we have based here, etc etc. I am talking about the neighborhoods that make up this city, and the hard working people of Cleveland. Everyone can list what a city offers (Cleveland packs one helluva a punch), but it is the people that make a city. I am hoping one day people can realize and appreciate just how much Cleveland brings to the table. I see Cleveland following Boston and Chicago's footsteps, and I like where this city and region is headed.
Anyway How would you like it if I made a Cleveland vs Des Moines Poll, its dumb, Cleveland wins in every catagory, so why Bother, that is what this thread is but Cleveland is in Des Moines Slot.
No. Cleveland in this case would be a Raleigh, not a Des Moines. I am just tired of your constant belittling of Cleveland. It's like you go out of your way to put Cleveland down. I like John, but he seriously went over the top this time. There is a way of showing what Cleveland offers, and this wasn't it. But there is also a way of being mature and having a true discussion without putting a city down to make another look better, and you didn't exactly follow that route.
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