Downtown Philadelphia vs Seattle (compared, life, people, ranking)

[HtownLove]

Originally Posted by Gateway Region

This is a bad comparison in my opinion too. Seattle needs to go play with Denver, Seattle, Pittsburgh and Minneapolis. Those cities are on the level of Seattle, Philly is above Seattle by two tiers for power and most forms of entertainment that is opinion based.

I agree, Seattle is more on the Level of Denver, Minneapolis and San Diego than Philadelphia. Don't know what is with all the comparisons (NY, DFW, Houston and now Philadelphia).

Seattle was on the way to making it, but never got there because of their gloomy weather, and isolated location. Philadelphia may have gone up and down the rollercoaster and may top be at the top of the rung right now, but at least they have been at the top. Seattle never had enough momentum to make it to the top once

[Deezus]

Originally Posted by munchitup

I guess it is Seattle week in CD.

Is that like Shark Week?

[phillies2011]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

Actually RTM vs Pike market (two of the best DT markets in the country) would be an interesting comparison in and of itself - two great DT markets, though no 9th street market for Seattle to compare to

Oddly a Seattle-ite transplant to Philly started which is now considered the best coffee house in America in LaColombe on 19th Street (Thx Seattle I quite enjoy their coffee) now expanded to Manhattan and the Loop

Agree that RTM is excellent, though I thought Pike market was cooler, though perhaps that just looking at it through the rose colored glasses of a tourist on vacation.

I don't really consider the ninth street market downtown. Though if you're adding that to the comparison I think Philly easily comes out on top. Pike Market much more similar to 9th street than RTM, although Pike is considerably more refined and has better dining/nightlife options.

Honestly I don't really drink much caffeine so I rarely go to cafes here and even though you would think i'd get coffee when visiting Seattle I don't remember getting any coffee in Seattle either, so I'm certainly not in the best position to judge this. I just figured Seattle would come out on top.

I was just singling those out as the only categories a reasonable person could decide Seattle bests philly in. I wasn't necessarily saying Seattle definitely bests philly in these categories as much as I was saying that Seattle doesn't really come close in any of the other categories.

[kidphilly]

Some pics from today

[orzo]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

Brookings Institute did a study on American downtowns

They found only 5 downtowns they consider fully developed.

Phildelphia was one Seattle was not, interesting read none-the-less. Seattle was considered an emerging DT with the likes of LA, Portland, Atlanta, San Diego, Baltimore, and Denver. Philadelphia was catagorized with NYC, Chicago, and Boston considerred fully-developed DTs.

http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Fil...1115_Birch.pdf

Im not sure how they determined it (aside from using census data) but that typology is absurd. They have DT San Francisco in the same tier as Norfolk and Charlotte, and DT DC in the same tier as Chattanooga. Think about that for a second.

[orzo]

Originally Posted by phillies2011

I don't think it's WAY below Philadelphia in the sense that there probably less than a dozen downtowns that separate the two if you were to rank all the american downtowns. Philly would easily be in the top five, I consider it third, though I imagine the people of Chicago and San Fran would dispute that and that's fine. There's still no way it gets pushed behind anyone else. Seattle is on the verge of being a top 10 downtown, at least top 15. So it's not like Seattle is WAY below Philadelphia in that sense.

However I do think that there is a very steep drop from NYC to anywhere else and the another significant drop from Boston, Philly, San FRan, and Chicago to any other city. So this comparison is NOT close. Philly soundly bests seattle in most of the categories that you would consider when comparing a downtown, but Seattle is still excellent and is one of the best in the country.

I agree Philly is better overall, but Seattle being on the verge of the top 10? Come on now - go ahead and name 9 downtowns better than Seattle. I'd say after the big 6, theres a significant drop off, but DT Seattle is right there at 7 or 8. It definitely beats Denver, Minneapolis, Pittsburgh, Portland, or Baltimore. You may prefer one of those downtowns, but looking at objective criteria Seattle is clearly at or near the top of that pile - again, it's 7th or 8th at the lowest.

[orzo]

One more point, you asked for criteria where DT Seattle could contend, here they are:

Criteria:

Vibrancy (Philly wins but DT Seattle has some very vibrant sections)
Dining
Markets
Shopping
Cafes
Activities (lots to do in downtown Seattle)
Bars (Philly wins but there are ton of bars in DT Seattle and the adjacent Capitol Hill neighborhood)
Next Set of Neighborhoods (again, Philly wins but Capitol Hill and Queen Anne are great adjacent neighborhoods)

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by orzo

Im not sure how they determined it (aside from using census data) but that typology is absurd. They have DT San Francisco in the same tier as Norfolk and Charlotte, and DT DC in the same tier as Chattanooga. Think about that for a second.

SF has always elluded me in this study, most definately among the top DTs in the country. DC is probably a level too low as well. I really cant comment on Chat but imagine it to be an outlier too. I think SF got dinged for lack of wealthy DT and what they used as the borders based on my understanding. Definately an anolmaly. Tenderloin and Chinatown have more poverty than many of the other DTs oddly SF to the next set of areas is by all means one of the wealthiest.

Regardless it is one study from a reputable source that examines DTs. it also takes into account education levels, population, density, access etc.

[orzo]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

SF has always elluded me in this study, most definately among the top DTs in the country. DC is probably a level too low as well. I really cant comment on Chat but imagine it to be an outlier too. I think SF got dinged for lack of wealthy DT and what they used as the borders based on my understanding. Definately an anolmaly. Tenderloin and Chinatown have more poverty than many of the other DTs oddly SF to the next set of areas is by all means one of the wealthiest.

Regardless it is one study from a reputable source that examines DTs. it also takes into account education levels, population, density, access etc.

Good points...

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by orzo

I agree Philly is better overall, but Seattle being on the verge of the top 10? Come on now - go ahead and name 9 downtowns better than Seattle. I'd say after the big 6, theres a significant drop off, but DT Seattle is right there at 7 or 8. It definitely beats Denver, Minneapolis, Pittsburgh, Portland, or Baltimore. You may prefer one of those downtowns, but looking at objective criteria Seattle is clearly at or near the top of that pile - again, it's 7th or 8th at the lowest.

I think this is pretty fair, to me NYC, Chicago, Philly, SF, Boston, and DC all would rank ahead of Seattle. I would make a case that LA does as well and some others are close to Seattle; like Baltimore or Pittsburgh, maybe even Atlanta in the same space if you include midtown in the Atlanta DT. Denver I feel as if I dont have enough experience to rank but hear good things and was mostly impressed with my limited experience. San Diego has made strides but that and Minneapolis feel below Seattle to me.

I would probably rank it (Seattle) at 7 or 8 if forced to choose myself which is pretty good and Seattle punches above its weight in this regard