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Old 11-30-2011, 10:53 AM
 
1,588 posts, read 3,252,863 times
Reputation: 857

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How legitimate is the Colliers list? Below is a list of the largest CBDs according to Cushman & Wakefield.

Updated List
Midtown Manhattan - 241,245,327
Chicago - 121,144,705
Downtown Manhattan - 86,372,50
Toronto - 83,950,592
Midtown South - 65,207,961
Boston - 60,803,309
Atlanta - 49,980,62 (includes downtown, Buckhead, and Midtown)
San Francisco - 49,261,846
Montreal - 47,974,501
Philadelphia - 43,716,633
Seattle - 41,841,902
Houston - 37,875,867
Calgary - 36,838,26
Cleveland - 34,010,395 (???)
Washington D.C. - 31,981,656 (CBD only)
Dallas - 28,623,462
Minneapolis - 28,137,066
Los Angeles - 27,131,327
Denver - 26,892,845
Vancouver - 23,955,547
Portland - 21,017,841
Pittsburgh - 19,170,450
Sacramento - 18,908,819
Charlotte - 18,124,289
Phoenix - 16,640,362
Atlanta - 15,532,405
Ottawa - 15,190,998
Edmonton - 15,024,92
Miami - 14,828,024
Baltimore - 13,381,776
Cincinnati - 13,266,620
Oakland - 12,994,254
Indianapolis - 10,473,043
Milwaukee - 10,435,855
Winnipeg - 10,073,461
Columbus - 9,867,383
Louisville - 9,161,133
Austin - 8,561,401
Hartford - 7,908,010
Nashville - 7,583,613
St. Paul - 7,342,156
Orlando - 7,233,734 (CBD/Downtown/Uptown)
San Jose - 6,961,984
Tampa - 6,380,856

Last edited by BlackOut; 11-30-2011 at 11:44 AM..
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Old 11-30-2011, 11:05 AM
 
443 posts, read 630,511 times
Reputation: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta_Born View Post
Of course office space is not an indicator of vibrancy. Vibrancy is a function of retail, restaurant, and bar space; residential; number of tourists, etc. It has nothing to do with amount of office space. I didn't say anything about "vibrancy" though, did I? I said "impressive". Downtown SJ isn't impressive in any way. It isn't vibrant either, but that's another discussion entirely.
First of all, the word "impressive" really doesn't mean much. I'd say the main factors people judge a downtown a by are its vibrancy and amenities. In both of these categories, DT San Jose is lackluster, especially for its population.

However, compared to many other American cities with significantly more office space, SJ is better in these categories. It has narrow, pedestrian-friendly streets, good transit, several clusters of bars, shops, and restaurants, and is generally a very walkable and livable place. Again, it is much, much smaller than it should be for a city of 1 million, and by no means a great downtown. But compared to a city like Phoenix, with much more office space and a bigger skyline, SJ is a lot more "impressive", as you would say, on street level.

Downtown San Jose:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=san+jo...,81.75,,0,4.53

Downtown Phoenix:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=phoeni...,65.16,,0,3.52
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Old 11-30-2011, 09:28 PM
Status: "Fire Walk with Me!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Bethesda
2,866 posts, read 5,697,608 times
Reputation: 1212
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackOut View Post
How legitimate is the Colliers list? Below is a list of the largest CBDs according to Cushman & Wakefield.

Updated List
Midtown Manhattan - 241,245,327
Chicago - 121,144,705
Downtown Manhattan - 86,372,50
Toronto - 83,950,592
Midtown South - 65,207,961
Boston - 60,803,309
Atlanta - 49,980,62 (includes downtown, Buckhead, and Midtown)
San Francisco - 49,261,846
Montreal - 47,974,501
Philadelphia - 43,716,633
Seattle - 41,841,902
Houston - 37,875,867
Calgary - 36,838,26
Cleveland - 34,010,395 (???)
Washington D.C. - 31,981,656 (CBD only)
Dallas - 28,623,462
Minneapolis - 28,137,066
Los Angeles - 27,131,327
Denver - 26,892,845
Vancouver - 23,955,547
Portland - 21,017,841
Pittsburgh - 19,170,450
Sacramento - 18,908,819
Charlotte - 18,124,289
Phoenix - 16,640,362
Atlanta - 15,532,405
Ottawa - 15,190,998
Edmonton - 15,024,92
Miami - 14,828,024
Baltimore - 13,381,776
Cincinnati - 13,266,620
Oakland - 12,994,254
Indianapolis - 10,473,043
Milwaukee - 10,435,855
Winnipeg - 10,073,461
Columbus - 9,867,383
Louisville - 9,161,133
Austin - 8,561,401
Hartford - 7,908,010
Nashville - 7,583,613
St. Paul - 7,342,156
Orlando - 7,233,734 (CBD/Downtown/Uptown)
San Jose - 6,961,984
Tampa - 6,380,856
How legitimate is the Wakefield list? Link?

Compared to the other studies in this thread, this one is an extreme outlier. What are they counting for the CBD of DC? LOL...are you trying to say that DC's edge city Tysons Corner has more office space than downtown DC itself?
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Old 12-01-2011, 08:19 AM
 
Location: a swanky suburb in my fancy pants
3,391 posts, read 6,861,154 times
Reputation: 1550
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackOut View Post
How legitimate is the Colliers list? Below is a list of the largest CBDs according to Cushman & Wakefield.

Updated List
Midtown Manhattan - 241,245,327
Chicago - 121,144,705
Downtown Manhattan - 86,372,50
Toronto - 83,950,592
Midtown South - 65,207,961
Boston - 60,803,309
Atlanta - 49,980,62 (includes downtown, Buckhead, and Midtown)
San Francisco - 49,261,846
Montreal - 47,974,501
Philadelphia - 43,716,633
Seattle - 41,841,902
Houston - 37,875,867
Calgary - 36,838,26
Cleveland - 34,010,395 (???)
Washington D.C. - 31,981,656 (CBD only)
Dallas - 28,623,462
Minneapolis - 28,137,066
Los Angeles - 27,131,327
Denver - 26,892,845
Vancouver - 23,955,547
Portland - 21,017,841
Pittsburgh - 19,170,450
Sacramento - 18,908,819
Charlotte - 18,124,289
Phoenix - 16,640,362
Atlanta - 15,532,405
Ottawa - 15,190,998
Edmonton - 15,024,92
Miami - 14,828,024
Baltimore - 13,381,776
Cincinnati - 13,266,620
Oakland - 12,994,254
Indianapolis - 10,473,043
Milwaukee - 10,435,855
Winnipeg - 10,073,461
Columbus - 9,867,383
Louisville - 9,161,133
Austin - 8,561,401
Hartford - 7,908,010
Nashville - 7,583,613
St. Paul - 7,342,156
Orlando - 7,233,734 (CBD/Downtown/Uptown)
San Jose - 6,961,984
Tampa - 6,380,856
Obviously you have to discard Atlanta's # since it is way more than the CBD. Also Boston's # can't be correct. Dallas seems very light unless they don't count empty space. Do they?
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Old 12-01-2011, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Denver
6,628 posts, read 11,349,252 times
Reputation: 3997
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryson662001 View Post
Obviously you have to discard Atlanta's # since it is way more than the CBD. Also Boston's # can't be correct. Dallas seems very light unless they don't count empty space. Do they?
According to Grubb&Ellis, Boston's CBD is around 65m sq ft.

I agree about the Atlanta thing though...those areas are spread apart pretty far.
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Old 12-01-2011, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,512 posts, read 25,432,485 times
Reputation: 7462
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryson662001 View Post
Obviously you have to discard Atlanta's # since it is way more than the CBD. Also Boston's # can't be correct. Dallas seems very light unless they don't count empty space. Do they?
The figure for Dallas given is actually similar to the Grubb Ellis and Collier reports. The bigger number you may have seen is the combination of Dallas Downtown and Fort Worth's downtown a 30 minute drive away. I dunno why they would combine downtown so far away into one district and leave out those that are side by side??? makes no sense. Uptown Dallas for example is right there
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Old 12-01-2011, 11:30 AM
 
1,588 posts, read 3,252,863 times
Reputation: 857
Quote:
Originally Posted by decafdave View Post
How legitimate is the Wakefield list? Link?

Compared to the other studies in this thread, this one is an extreme outlier. What are they counting for the CBD of DC? LOL...are you trying to say that DC's edge city Tysons Corner has more office space than downtown DC itself?
LOL... Here's the link:
C&W MarketBeat Series 3Q11

Quote:
Originally Posted by bryson662001 View Post
Obviously you have to discard Atlanta's # since it is way more than the CBD. Also Boston's # can't be correct. Dallas seems very light unless they don't count empty space. Do they?
In regards to Atlanta, I posted the total for downtown, Buckhead, and Midtown (49,980,624) and downtown only (15,532,405). As far as Boston and Dallas, I posted the link so, you can check it.

Last edited by BlackOut; 12-01-2011 at 11:45 AM..
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Old 12-01-2011, 11:56 AM
 
4,918 posts, read 7,698,948 times
Reputation: 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by decafdave View Post
How legitimate is the Wakefield list? Link?

Compared to the other studies in this thread, this one is an extreme outlier. What are they counting for the CBD of DC? LOL...are you trying to say that DC's edge city Tysons Corner has more office space than downtown DC itself?
That list is horrendous. The two mile K street corridor in DT DC has 25 million square feet of office space alone.
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Old 12-01-2011, 12:02 PM
 
Location: a swanky suburb in my fancy pants
3,391 posts, read 6,861,154 times
Reputation: 1550
I have been to all these cities and Boston's financial district didn't seem as big as San Francisco's or any bigger than Dallas when counting highrise office buildings. It didn't seem any bigger than Philly either. Maybe appearances are deceiving?
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Old 12-01-2011, 12:23 PM
 
1,588 posts, read 3,252,863 times
Reputation: 857
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC's Finest View Post
That list is horrendous. The two mile K street corridor in DT DC has 25 million square feet of office space alone.
The majority of U.S. cities don't have a downtown area that has a two mile stretch. In most cities, one would be outside the CBD after a few blocks.
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