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Yes, we are a quirky couple. Or, at least, I am eccentric, and she tolerates it.
First, the introduction (and I'll try to be brief... but, if it isn't brief enough [and, after reading through it, it isn’t], skip ahead to the stars).
My wife and I are fairly young -- I am 30, and she is 25. We've led rather interesting 'travel focused' lives thus far. I am a military brat, born in Rhode Island, and lived for multiple years (in order) in RI, Maine, Virginia, Delaware, Illinois, Maryland and, finally, Maine once again (my parents, unlike myself, were always resolute about where they wanted to end up at the end of the trek). She spent most of her early life in Texas, and, like many Texans, believed the Earth revolved around the Lone Star State... until I shattered those myths with a single trip to New England, and the combination of potent weather, pretty houses, and vibrant scenery broke any desire she ever had of returning 'home.'
The result of all my moves is that I've covered a lot of territory (I believe I've 'bagged' 45 states now), and I've seen a lot of different things. Add to that, I had strange hobbies as a teenager -- I loved cities, maps, geography, geology, history, etc... and because of these passions, I tended to spend a lot of time reading encyclopedias (these were the days before Wikipedia, mind you, and it was hard to get pictures anywhere else of places you hadn't been to!), gobbling up the budding skylines of places I'd never been to, like San Francisco and Seattle and Omaha. I became a big fan of places I had never set foot in -- Seattle being chief amongst them. I loved the idea of a rainy, murky place, battered by ocean storms in the winter, dazzlingly green and rich in the summer. I love volcanoes, and the idea of being close to some of the largest in the country had a great appeal, too (yes, as I said, quirky).
One place I did happen to visit as a child, however, was Denver. While we were living in IL (my father was stationed at Scott AFB), we took what was easily the 'defining' vacation of my youth (yes, amidst something like 7 trips to Disney World, this was the one I remember most fondly) -- a western sweep to Colorado. I can vividly remember a point in that trip, some time a few hours after we had crossed from Kansas over the border, when I realized that the clouds I had been idly glancing at on the horizon weren't clouds at all, but mighty and majestic peaks, looming like a storm and smashing my easterner's paltry concept of a lofty place. Mount Washington and Katahdin were nothing compared to the Rockies and, what's more, the ranges of Colorado were populated by all kinds of weird eye-candy -- old mines, tourist railroads, beautifully-restored towns, and pines and aspens as far as you could see. It was a wonderful and, dare I say it, life-altering experience.
Fast forward to last year, and me and wife were living in two bedrooms upstairs in my parents' house in Maine. I had met my wife on the internet, moved to Texas to be with her, and had hated (it's difficult to describe how much, but it turns out there was some place much worse) everything about the place. We moved back to Maine, but for some reason I just couldn't stomach New England anymore. I've always loved the northeast and always will -- (I'll never be able to shake my fandom for the Sox, Bruins, Pats or Celts, or Boston as a city, for that matter), but in the intervening 15 years since that Denver trip, I'd just seen too much. New England was -- and will always be -- my parents' kingdom (they had both grown up in MA). But I'd never known anything other than a travelling lifestyle, and because of that I didn’t really have any one place I looked at as home. My wife was similarly aloof -- having left Texas, she was open to moving anywhere.
Anyway, living in my parents’ house left us rather low (as you might expect), particularly since neither of us had good jobs (what we’d spent on our respective educations left us impoverished and, frankly, expecting more). But, as luck would have it, my wife interviewed-for-and-got a job as a nanny for the children of a professional sports player. We spent the rest of the summer living in Boston, and then moved with the family to Phoenix.
I’m not going to go into great detail, but we hate this part of Arizona (Flagstaff is lovely, but it might as well be on the moon given the current price of gas). We’re currently in Chandler (about 20 miles SE of the center of Phoenix), and I have never seen an uglier place. The mountains look like giant piles of untended dirt; the buildings and houses are an endless succession of tan and brown clones.
And in many ways, the ‘book’ is even worse than the cover. The culture here sucks. I have never seen so many old people in my life; old people who have fled ‘real’ places like Chicago and Boise and Birmingham and New York (friggin’ Yankees, but, I digress, it’s a place with culture) to journey to this desolate wasteland so they can die as far away from their relatives as possible. Their empty faces haunt the Walmart parking lots and the unending number of Chili’s and Fudruckers. Those who aren’t members of the 55+ crowd have somehow convinced themselves that this bleak, featureless desert is ‘wonderful’ because it lacks any semblance of what could be considered ‘weather’ (yah know, stuff that falls out of the sky, or tickles the tree branches so they move slightly?) 99.9 percent of the time. What little moisture falls or wind blows is immediately decried by all as the coming of the end of the world. And how they tolerate the summer (which I am dreading) is beyond me. Dry heat my ass.
I’m glad there is a horrible place where all these automatons masquerading as members of the human race can be stored away from everyone else (and, what’s more, since it’s horrible to look at, I don’t feel like the land is being wasted) but my great desire is to flee Phoenix as soon as is possible. That will be in November, when my wife’s contract with the player (which was extended) is up.
Our choices, for various reasons, have boiled down to picking between Denver and Seattle, and there are aspects of both that we like and dislike. I know a lot about both places, and have now visited both (yes, I have been to both in the winter too!), but I’m having trouble sifting my thoughts on the issue. Once this (mis)adventure is over, my wife would really like to settle down, and I confess that the constant moving is getting old for me, too (at least Texas and Arizona weren’t my idea!). Here are our current thoughts:
****
Weather:
- We both like snow. Yup, we do. (Advantage Denver)
- We both like rain. But probably not as much as we like snow. (Denver)
- We like coolish summers. (Seattle)
- We like major seasonal changes. (Draw)
- We like thunderstorms. (Denver)
- We like nor’easter-like storms (Seattle)
Scenery:
- We both love the mountains. (Denver, though not by much. The Cascades/Olympics (Rainier and Baker are glorious) are beautiful, too, but seem at first glance to be slightly less accessible than the Rockies)
- We both love the ocean. (Seattle. Does Puget Sound ever get warm enough to swim in?)
- I love volcanoes. (Seattle)
- We prefer undulating terrain with lots of trees. (Seattle, I think. Denver and most of the suburbs are located on plains, and while we’d love to live some place like Georgetown, CO, we’re not wealthy)
Economy:
- Seattle seems (from what I can see) to be doing slightly better than Denver. It also clearly has higher-paying nanny jobs. (Seattle)
- Seattle is more expensive to live in. (Denver)
- Washington has no income tax. (Seattle)
- I’m a newspaper reporter by trade. (Seattle, because most of Denver’s bedroom communities don’t seem to have local papers. Seattle’s do)
Mixed Bag:
- I am a big fan of seafood. (Seattle)
- We are big fans of beef and BBQ. (Denver?)
- I prefer the Seahawks/Mariners to the Broncos/Rockies. (Seattle… and, honestly, this isn’t a big deal ‘cuz I’ll never stop being a New England homer)
- We would much prefer a Victorian house in Denver to a modern one in Seattle (during my trips to both places, I noticed that there were a lot more ‘cute’ houses in the Denver region than Seattle. This is a huge deal to my wife. Comparing North Bend, WA [what I would consider an atypically ‘cute’ Seattle-area town] to, say, Leadville, CO isn’t even fair. Having said that, the immediate Seattle suburbs may actually be more attractive than the Denver ones that are on the plains). (Denver, I guess)
- We’re both conservative/libertarian types. (Denver)
- We like to travel and see new things. (Seattle, because it is closer to more places we’ve never been to than Denver is, and we both normally prefer to drive on vacations)
- I am ambivalent about the 'Seattle freeze' even if it does exist. We're both home bodies most of the time and, let's face it, New Englanders aren't exactly warm and chummy either. (???)
- I love trains. (I dunno. Both places have trains. I just figured I’d throw this up there. Railfanning is obviously somewhat different in CO than it is in WA)
****
So, yeah.
That’s a big convoluted mess, as you can see.
Fortunately or unfortunately, we like both places… and we don’t like some things about them, too. I have never -- even including places like D.C. and Boston -- seen traffic as bad as I did in Seattle. Never. Having said that, I don’t like the nearly-treeless ‘great plainsy’ look of so much of the area surrounding Denver. Denver is in close proximity to so much cool stuff… but I’m not in any way, shape or form in love with the city itself. I just like what’s in ‘yonder hills.’ I think Seattle itself is probably the cooler city, but the mountains seem even more difficult to get at there and, what’s worse, the traffic seems to preclude commuting from a play like Issaquah into the city, or at least render it a horrifying prospect. The problem is, because my wife’s career essentially requires the presence of year-round millionaires in large numbers, we are forever linked to big urban areas. There’s also no easy ‘well we’ll just move to X when we retire after living in Y’ -- we do not want to move away from our future children when they’ll be having babies of their own. Where ever we go, that’s ‘it.’
And so I seek help in unraveling this mystery, or at least in ordering my thoughts. I have brooded over this issue since practically the day we moved to Phoenix, and I am still no nearer to a resolution. Her job is paying for her to move to either location when her contract is up -- we merely need to choose which it is. So I hereby lay myself prostrate before the court, and leave it to you oh rightly-biased justices (who will probably vote in favor of your respective, wonderful homelands) to render some kind of verdict… or at least spin me in the proper direction.
Thank you for reading, and thank you for any and all help.
(Posted in the Denver forum as well)
Last edited by ShrikeArghast; 03-26-2012 at 01:55 AM..
When I lived in Denver, one of the things I missed was thunderstorms. As I recall, they were rare or nonexistant. Constant forcast was clear sky in the morning with a slight chance of rain in the afternoon.
Both are good choices. From reading your preferences, I would say Denver fits you better, but listen to the others that respond.
From reading your post, I can tell Denver is not for you. Seattle sounds more what you're looking for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShrikeArghast
I don’t like the nearly-treeless ‘great plainsy’ look of so much of the area surrounding Denver. Denver is in close proximity to so much cool stuff… but I’m not in any way, shape or form in love with the city itself.
Don't try to make yourself want to like a place if it doesn't really resonate with you... and don't move somewhere just because it's cheaper (you already made that mistake with Phoenix once, don't make it again). You'll end up hating yourself.
You like the ocean, green, rain, murk, trees, cool summers. Seattle.
You hate the brown of Arizona. Seattle.
Quirkiness. Seattle.
City coolness. Seattle.
Proximity of cool outdoors stuff. Either. Seattle is right on the sound. Denver is on the plains. Doing things in the mountains is a couple of hours away in either place. Doing things in the foothills is easier in Denver.
You like snow. Either. You won't get as much in the city in Seattle, but Denver is not a snowy place compared to the NE, and there's all the snow you could ever want up in the mountains near either.
No mention of the hiking, skiing, mountain climbing lifestyle you have always dreamed of. Seattle.
Inferring personality from the dyspeptic and intellectual tone of your post. Seattle.
How about getting a job and moving to where it's located? Seems to me that finding a job should be your first priority. (but I suspect you prefer living off your parents and your wife or else you would HAVE a job.)
I think you're going to get answers in both of the forums your posted in, saying that the opposite city is going to be best for you. I don't know that either of those cities actually fit your bill very well. ie. Being a conservative in Seattle is not going to be fun as it is one of the most liberal cities in the country.
Have you actually been to Seattle in the winter? PNW "storms" and rains are NOTHING like the NE or CO front range. And you've only been to Denver when you were a kid?
Might be time to revisit both cities.
I agree about the jobs. Newspapers are not prevalent anywhere anymore, Seattle included, as they closed one of the two main papers a few years ago.
I've lived in CO for 4.5 years and Seattle for 2.5, and now Portland, which is pretty similar to Seattle. And the two areas are quite different.
I think getting into the mountains is just as easy in Seattle as Denver (esp. if you were to live on the East side of Denver).
I'm going to predict that most of the answers on the Seattle forum will lean towards you going to Denver. That's just the way we are. The Seattle area's just a place where people have strong passions about. The Seattle folks who hate it here will tell you how unfriendly the people are, how expensive everything is, and how dark, wet, and gloomy it is 360 days a year. The Seattle folks who like it here don't want to share it, and they'll tell you slighly moderated versions of what the haters told you.
Me? I say Seattle. We've got all kinds of eccentrics, you'll fit right in. We have train geeks(okay, railfans), and a couple of old steamtrain lines not too far away. Old, weird little towns? Check. Former mining towns? Hello Black Diamond WA, also home of a bakery over 100 years old.
Hatred of the New York Yankees? Seattle Mariners fans tend to be overly polite, but save their hatred for the Yankees.
I don't know enough about Denver to judge, but Seattle's suburbs have plenty of libertarians/conservatives. The city of Seattle itself? You are required to be a self righteous, holier than thou radical environmentalist, or at least keep it in the closet. So, yeah, Seattle. Much more similar to Boston than Denver is, but cleaner, newer, and prettier. And looking at mountains over the water is pretty cool. And in Denver, you'll have to adapt all the baking recipes due to the elevation.
You sound like me in some respects. I had narrowed it down to Denver and Seattle and ended up picking Seattle.
I just feel it fits me better and what I'm interested in. I was a geology and geography major with a minor in astronomy, so i share your interest in maps and volcanoes! Within a two-hour radius of Seattle, you can pretty much do anything you can think of. I didn't feel that was possible in Denver. Also, even though Seattle is in the far northwestern corner of the country, I felt Denver was more isolated. It feels like it's in the middle of nowhere to me.
Overall, these are the main reasons I chose Seattle over Denver:
Hills
Trees
Greenery
Less traffic (yes. Denver is worse although many here will still disagree)
Proximity to water/ocean
Proximity to volcanoes
Proximity to Canada
Mild climate with no extreme temperature swings
Feels more urban
Islands to explore
Economy
Seafood
Ira, I'm guilty as charged. Other than the terrain, and yes, the OP is right, the Denver terrain is very flat east of the mountains. If they like snow more than rain, if they find Seattle traffic horrific after one visit, if they like the houses in Denver much more (and consider that an important factor), if they like nor'easter storms, really, it's Denver all the way. And OP, Denver gets far far more thunder/lightening storms in the spring and summer. Their storms are dramatic and almost every afternoon it seems. Seattle does not get much in the way of thunder and lightening and snow only come once or twice a year if that (and most of us don't like it).
Do I want to share Seattle? Well, no, not really. But I'm guessing if the OP comes to Seattle, they'll still end up trying Denver later.
You should also think about what you're going to do for a job. If your wife is a nanny and you are a newspaper reporter by trade - have you ever actually written for a newspaper? Have you ever had the job you were educated for? Newspapers are going the way of the dinosaur. Information comes so fast now that a newspaper printed last night is outdated by 10:00 a.m. the following day. Television news production might be a consideration, so is online news. Maybe you could be a travel writer. All of these are hard to find so unless your wife is going to be the main supporter, you might want to consider looking for jobs and go where they land you.
Last edited by Seacove; 03-26-2012 at 10:16 AM..
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