Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I find it interesting that posters state they say the facts and back what they believe with facts but don't point out the misinformation when it is posted about the opposing city. First, Cleveland is waaaaaaaaay more urban than Charlotte. That is without a doubt. Cleveland, has incredible urban neighborhoods, higher education, and high arts. However, if the last time you came to Charlotte was 2007, you have missed an incredible transformation the city id going through. There has been an incredible renaissance in the city as evidence by a building boom. Such as an Ikea, several buildings at UNCC, among others.
This recession has severely hurt Charlotte, and I don't wish any city in the country would suffer and why some seem to gloat when they do. I'm happy to hear that Cleveland is doing good and I'm familiar with the article byBrookings. However, something else I want to point out is Cleveland has a higher population than Charlotte and a higher workforce than Charlotte as well. Yet, Charlotte's GDP is higher. I think that is something commendable on Charlotte's behalf just as it was commended how Cleveland is improving despite it's recent struggles in the past few decades.
I should also more that both metros seem to see the benefit of working together as evidenced by the Cleveland Clinic working with Carolina's Medical Center to help treat heart disease.
Nope! Charlotte has definitely NOT recovered as well as Cleveland has, coming out of this latest recession.
That is NOT what I said you know it. I explicitly stated that has had challenges in its recovery, but taking the long view, it has performed better economically than Cleveland over the past several years. I'm not just talking about this brief post-recessionary period, I'm talking about the last two decades or so. Cleveland recovering better absolutely cannot make up for the profound loss of industry it has suffered over the past two decades (and probably beyond).
That is NOT what I said you know it. I explicitly stated that has had challenges in its recovery, but taking the long view, it has performed better economically than Cleveland over the past several years. I'm not just talking about this brief post-recessionary period, I'm talking about the last two decades or so. Cleveland recovering better absolutely cannot make up for the profound loss of industry it has suffered over the past two decades (and probably beyond).
You stated "after this last recession", so my response is accurate and incontrovertible. The accompanying studies that I also included from the famed and trusted Brookings Institute further corroborates that Cleveland has emerged from this last recession in a better position than Charlotte has.
You stated "after this last recession", so my response is accurate and incontrovertible. The accompanying studies that I also included from the famed and trusted Brookings Institute further corroborates that Cleveland has emerged from this last recession in a better position than Charlotte has.
You're obviously having reading comprehension problems. My original statement was, "Charlotte has had challenges in terms of recovery after this one recession, but taking the long view, it has absolutely performed better than Cleveland economically." That is COMPLETELY different from saying that it has recovered better than Cleveland. You're talking about Cleveland's performance within the last two years exclusively, while I'm talking about the performance of both cities within the past two decades. Charlotte has obviously fared better than Cleveland economically over the long run and that's not even debatable.
You're obviously having reading comprehension problems. My original statement was, "Charlotte has had challenges in terms of recovery after this one recession, but taking the long view, it has absolutely performed better than Cleveland economically." That is COMPLETELY different from saying that it has recovered better than Cleveland. You're talking about Cleveland's performance within the last two years exclusively, while I'm talking about the performance of both cities within the past two decades. Charlotte has obviously fared better than Cleveland economically over the long run and that's not even debatable.
Since I'm sure you don't have telepathy, and you can't actually read my mind, I need to correct you on the above response ...
First of all, you stated a period of 'several years', which I determine to be a period of longer than just two years. I'm not sure where you thought I was referring to only two years? I'm talking 4 to 5 years, which would fit the meaning of 'several years' - back to 2007 or 2008, as the recession began to take hold.
From around 2007 to the present, Cleveland has certainly had it rough, but it has also fared far better than Charlotte over 'those several years'.
Furthermore, in your post that I initially responded to, not once did you reference a period of 'two decades' ... We're only talking about this latest recession that began in '07 - '08. Prior to 2007, Charlotte was in a much better position, until the big banking meltdown struck.
Since I'm sure you don't have telepathy, and you can't actually read my mind, I need to correct you on the above response ...
First of all, you stated a period of 'several years', which I determine to be a period of longer than just two years. I'm not sure where you thought I was referring to only two years? I'm talking 4 to 5 years, which would fit the meaning of 'several years' - back to 2007 or 2008, as the recession began to take hold.
From around 2007 to the present, Cleveland has certainly had it rough, but it has also fared far better than Charlotte over 'those several years'.
Furthermore, in your post that I initially responded to, not once did you reference a period of 'two decades' ... We're only talking about this latest recession that began in '07 - '08. Prior to 2007, Charlotte was in a much better position, until the big banking meltdown struck.
But as I pointed out before, Charlotte’s is in the top five for job growth, while Cleveland is pathetically in the bottom five. Try as you might to convince people otherwise, Cleveland unfortunately is still, what it has been for the past few decades, a city on the decline...."Austin and San Jose led the United States in job growth last year, according to an analysis of the latest data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics…Houston, Charlotte, and Nashville round out the top five…Sacramento, Birmingham, Cleveland, Virginia Beach, and Providence had the slowest rates of job creation." Story:The U.S. Cities With the Fastest Growing Job Markets - Jobs & Economy - The Atlantic Cities
Let's be honest, shall we? The people from the Carolinas say "Charlotte wins", and the people from Ohio say, "I vote for Cleveland", followed up by "facts" displayed in websites. Most of us vote for our home city because we are Homers. Period. Don't try to play like you don't. To truly get unbiased opinion based on real facts, you have to get feedback from people with no connections to either place.
So you can't prefer one city over another unless you're a homer?
Unemployment rates are not biased.
GDP numbers are not biased.
Age and architecture are not biased.
Density figures are not biased.
Demographics/diversity are not biased.
The only bias is whether or not someone believes these things matter, and when it comes to those picking Charlotte, clearly the only thing that matters is how much sunshine per day they see.
I wonder if your opinion about the poll would be the same if Cleveland was winning, I'm gong to guess no. You can prefer Cleveland all you want, just as I prefer Charlotte. The difference is that I'm not taking juvenile jabs at Cleveland after sentences of talk on how enlightened Charlotte is.
If Cleveland was winning the poll, it wouldn't change the fact that all these polls on C-D mean absolutely nothing in the real world. An internet poll cannot fix Charlotte's problems anymore than it can fix Cleveland's. Nothing John said was false. It may be wrapped up in boosterism, but the physical real-world data supports his position. The only thing people have to throw at Cleveland is population loss, which has been a long-term symptom of greater economic problems. Those economic problems have been improving for awhile now. Cleveland still has problems to overcome, but it's worst days are most definitely in the past. It's only a matter of time before population stabilizes and changes direction.
But as I pointed out before, Charlotte’s is in the top five for job growth, while Cleveland is pathetically in the bottom five. Try as you might to convince people otherwise, Cleveland unfortunately is still, what it has been for the past few decades, a city on the decline...."Austin and San Jose led the United States in job growth last year, according to an analysis of the latest data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics…Houston, Charlotte, and Nashville round out the top five…Sacramento, Birmingham, Cleveland, Virginia Beach, and Providence had the slowest rates of job creation." Story:The U.S. Cities With the Fastest Growing Job Markets - Jobs & Economy - The Atlantic Cities
No need to convince, or even try hard to do so. I'll let the FACTS speak for me ...
If you're going to quote me, please have your facts in order! Not once, have I ever stated that Cleveland had a 'faster growing job market' than boring Charlotte ... No, not once! What I have stated is that Cleveland has emerged from this last recession in a much stronger position than Charlotte has, and that my dear, is the incontrovertible truth!
The study by the esteemed Brookings Institute is factual and scientific, as much as you loathe hearing that. Just look at the positive proof in these HEADLINES ....
Uh, incidentally, Charlotte did not attain any placement on any of the aforementioned lists of progressive cities. Cleveland ranked # 2 for 'One of the best cities for Jobs' ... that's number two on a list of 30 other major cities.
You care to call me out again for providing inaccurate data? I think NOT!
On a never ending quest for truth and hard facts, I have decided to visit Charlotte ( figuratively speaking ) to see what's really happening down on the other end of I-77. It didn't take long to uncover the truth about Charlotte's situation, from a few brave, honest local entities that include the city's own chamber of commerce ...
2012 Forecast from Charlotte Chamber of Commerce
Charlotte Chamber - Economic Forecast (http://charlottechamber.com/demo-ecoprofile/economic-forecast/ - broken link)
There are some signs of hope though, in Charlotte ...
Last edited by Yac; 04-24-2012 at 06:20 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
