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View Poll Results: Los Angeles vs. San Francisco
Los Angeles 132 38.26%
San Francisco 213 61.74%
Voters: 345. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-11-2009, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland/ Piedmont, CA
31,578 posts, read 53,123,475 times
Reputation: 14501

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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt345 View Post
And while transit in San Francisco may not be up to par with the East Coast cities,
What? SF proper has excellent transit that is used by a lot of people. In fact, SF has one of the highest rates of public transit use in the nation.

And as far as reach, I don't think any subway line in America is as long as Pittsburg/Bay Point is to Millbrae.

BART is a huge system as far as how far you can go away from The City. It goes way, way , WAY far away. LOL

SUBWAY MAPS TO SCALE..obviously Paris and NY have much more extensive systems, but as far as reach, BART is a monster.

NY Subway MAP


San Francisco


Paris


 
Old 08-11-2009, 08:49 PM
 
318 posts, read 237,372 times
Reputation: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
What? SF proper has excellent transit that is used by a lot of people. In fact, SF has one of the highest rates of public transit use in the nation.

And as far as reach, I don't think any subway line in America is as long as Pittsburg/Bay Point is to Millbrae.

BART is a huge system as far as how far you can go away from The City. It goes way, way , WAY far away. LOL

SUBWAY MAPS TO SCALE..obviously Paris and NY have much more extensive systems, but as far as reach, BART is a monster.

NY Subway MAP


San Francisco


Paris

Montclaire,

That's not really fair to New York and Paris, Paris system includes RER which reaches well beyond the city proper and New York has PATH, LIRR and Metro North that reaches and serves, millions of people.
 
Old 08-11-2009, 09:11 PM
 
Location: In the heights
20,129 posts, read 21,745,742 times
Reputation: 10221
A good mass transit system is more about the density of its coverage rather than how far it reaches (though that's important, too). Also, SF's mass transit is much more than its heavy rail lines as it has extensive light rail and other forms of public transportation. As far as carless living goes, both LA and SF benefit from fairly good year-round weather with comfortable weather in terms of both the heat index and precipitation for walking and biking--though in LA's case, much of that is squandered outside of the western portions of the city.
 
Old 08-11-2009, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland/ Piedmont, CA
31,578 posts, read 53,123,475 times
Reputation: 14501
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefinalcut View Post
Montclaire,

That's not really fair to New York and Paris, Paris system includes RER which reaches well beyond the city proper and New York has PATH, LIRR and Metro North that reaches and serves, millions of people.
Which is why I said,
obviously Paris and NY have much more extensive systems, but as far as reach, BART is a monster.

And its true, BART goes way out there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by oycrumbler
A good mass transit system is more about the density of its coverage rather than how far it reaches
I totally agree, but someone commented that BART doesnt go anywhere and I gotta tell ya, the East Bay is pretty well covered.

The counties that don't have BART are the ones that voted against being part of BART in the 50s and 60s. Now they are lining up to get on board. LOL
 
Old 08-11-2009, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Long Island/NYC
11,294 posts, read 16,401,159 times
Reputation: 6045
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
What? SF proper has excellent transit that is used by a lot of people. In fact, SF has one of the highest rates of public transit use in the nation.

And as far as reach, I don't think any subway line in America is as long as Pittsburg/Bay Point is to Millbrae.

BART is a huge system as far as how far you can go away from The City. It goes way, way , WAY far away. LOL

SUBWAY MAPS TO SCALE..obviously Paris and NY have much more extensive systems, but as far as reach, BART is a monster.

NY Subway MAP




San Francisco


Paris
Paris's system looks very small compared to SF's & NYC's.
 
Old 08-11-2009, 10:53 PM
 
2,958 posts, read 5,504,666 times
Reputation: 1406
Quote:
Originally Posted by barneyrubble84 View Post
San Francisco sucks.

Nobody will tell you that, but it DOES.
Well you're obviously new here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barneyrubble84 View Post
First of all, it gets boring. After you've met all the annoying burning man/yoga/i'm-god's-gift-to-humanity-because-i-eat-tofu-and-act-indignant types and hit all the tourist spots, there's nothing left to do. Why do you think there was that hyphy movement in oakland with people messing around in the streets and why people go to burning man and do that hippie crap in the first place? 'cause there's NOTHING TO DO. Except eat. There are good restaurants, that's about it.
Well that's a matter of opinion, but fair enough if there was nothing here that appealed to you. I'm just not sure exactly where in the world you will find something to do since there seems to be severe limitations to your imagination. You have to be pretty closed-minded to actually believe this is true. There's too much going on here to realistically state such a thing. If its not your cup of tea, I can respect that. But if you honestly think there's NOTHING to do here for adults, you're missing a lot.

Would NYC have any activities for you I wonder? Or is it just a pure hatred for SF that makes you feel this way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by barneyrubble84 View Post
As far as San Franciscans being more intellectual... after living there for 6 years and trying hard to find the good in people, I found most people in SF to be immature, narcissistic children that want to LOOK like they're intellectuals. There's a big difference between being a pseudo-intellectual and reading the best-sellers that tell you what progressive views to espouse and actually having COHERENT THOUGHTS BASED ON EVIDENCE. If you try to take one of them seriously or actually engage them in an objective debate or try to figure out what they really think, they'll stare at you stupidly and then act hurt because you 'harshed their mellow'.

God. At least in LA, the bimbos KNOW they're bimbos and don't give a ****. I can respect that. All those ugly wannabe hippie types in SF are just as dumb, but they're insufferably self-righteous.

There are lots of VERY intelligent, educated Angelinos, and I find Angelinos on the whole to be kinder, more generous, and level-headed than their petty, freaked-out, selfish SF counterparts. Don't believe everything you see on TV, kiddies...

Also, the visual art in LA is a zillion times better, and the major cultural institutions (LA Phil, Opera, LACMA, MOMA, etc) are really superior to the SF Symphony, Opera, etc... I really can't stand MTT as a conductor, and what is up with the SF opera staging? Fugging SUCKS and it's the SAME EVERY SINGLE TIME.

I'm originally from Southern California and went to SF for school, thinking I might stay, but found 'adult life' in SF to be petty, boring, and WAY too expensive. That's another thing. If they're so progressive, why is there no affordable housing / such HUGE class disparities? And I noticed a lot more classism and racism than in LA. It's like all these white 'progressives' moved out of their small midwestern towns and settled in SF and want to keep all the scary poor people in the East Bay. It's like there's no middle class. LA has super rich and super poor, but at least there's a strong middle class, and you can get a fugging J-O-B.

Fact of the matter is, LA is a real economy.. LA metro alone is something like the 6th largest economy in the world. It's not trying to be some pseudo-European hippie wonderland, but who cares? If you want Europe, live in Europe. SF is an expensive, boutique, hypocritical fantasy-land for ******* that can't handle a real city.
Ouch! Well, if your experience here was that bad I can't blame you for having that point of view. It sounds like you must have interacted primarily with white SF transplants. They're quicker to get territorial and act as though you suck if you're from elsewhere.

But I dunno, if you endured a lot of LA-bashing you also may have been dealing with homegrown residents/Giants fans too. I think there is a bit too much of that up here. I've come to realize that it is more prevalent coming from the SF side than it is from the LA side. Which is weird to me b/c I never grew up with that mentality, other than hating the Dodgers and the Rams. I had it thrown my way from LA people talking trash (kind of like you are here, but more hateful and not speaking from their own experience as you have) before I ever knew anyone here to act like that. But in recent years, I'm noticing that there is a lot more of that negative sentiment coming from up here than I had ever before realized. That sucks your time here was so whack.
 
Old 08-11-2009, 11:22 PM
 
2,958 posts, read 5,504,666 times
Reputation: 1406
Quote:
Originally Posted by barneyrubble84 View Post
As far as the 'urbanity' of San Francisco.. sure it LOOKS pretty, it LOOKS like a city, but a city to me is made up of the people and institutions, not how pretty the tourist spots look.. it's not the Victorian age, so as far as I'm concerned, row houses and downtown density are a pleasant anachronism, not a cornerstone of a great modern city experience. Who is actually living in those row houses and running those cutesy boutique stores? Bunch of homogenized yuppies. Everybody in SF is the SAME it seems. Urbanity to me is the dynamic interchange between lots of different types of people, the creative mix of people and institutions, not the external shell of 'cityhood'.
Well that statement couldn't be further from the truth, but since you threw in "it seems," I'll accept that you're not just some SF-bashing troll. If all you saw were the same kind of people, then it makes sense that you would think that. But believe me, if you're coming from the Marina District and you head over to the Excelsior District, you'll come across some very diametrically opposed types of people. There is a lot more variety here than you seem to have been exposed to. That's a shame.

I agree though, there is a ton of disgusting yuppies and hipsters here now. And I do not care for the majority of their presence. They're vibe killers, culture leaches, and they take over and alter neighborhoods in a way I really don't care for. I don't mind some neighborhood improvements, but in some cases the price is too high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barneyrubble84 View Post
I was never this vitriolic or even defensive of LA when I moved to SF, but the constant trash-talking of LA based on hear-say and ignorance and inability to accept any good things about LA just floored me. There are a lot of good, hard-working people in LA.
I can't blame ya. I'd feel the exact same in your shoes. I promise you though, there are many people out here who do not act like that. Its too bad you didn't meet any.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barneyrubble84 View Post
I also think that underneath a lot of the LA hatred is racism and classism... LA is a lot less white in many ways than SF, and also less old-money.
Or at least when it comes to a transplant's idea of what SF is. This is one of my biggest gripes. The City has become a huge douche magnet that seems to attract a lot of dreamers and ideologues that come here thinking they should embrace the "San Francisco" that exists in stereotypes and they end up making the stereotypes more of a reality. This place only has a 35% native population now.

Most of the vegans/cyclists/activists/etc. did not grow up in the City of San Francisco, and they did not go through its public school system. If I recall correctly, in the 90's the SF High School District was only 13% white (I might be remembering wrong, but it was something extremely low like that). Most of the white kids either went to private school or to Lowell High. Before that era, when SF was majority white in like the 50's, it was mostly blue collar. So the SF you've described here is for the most part an imported thing.

I suppose it makes no difference to you since whoever was here that you met seems to have sucked, but I'm just trying to say I feel your pain. There are many that come here from elsewhere that give this place a bad name. Not that there aren't any that are actually from here that do, but the type you've described is largely imported from elsewhere, and I find them to be just as atrocious as you seem to. There are plenty of cool people from all over the world that live here in SF, and for them I am thankful. But the unpleasant yuppie/hipster demographic, or those who come here with the wrong idea of how this place truly is and then embrace that ideology and then act superior to others make me sick.
 
Old 08-12-2009, 01:20 AM
 
3 posts, read 4,041 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman650 View Post
Well that's a matter of opinion, but fair enough if there was nothing here that appealed to you. I'm just not sure exactly where in the world you will find something to do since there seems to be severe limitations to your imagination. You have to be pretty closed-minded to actually believe this is true. There's too much going on here to realistically state such a thing. If its not your cup of tea, I can respect that. But if you honestly think there's NOTHING to do here for adults, you're missing a lot.

Would NYC have any activities for you I wonder? Or is it just a pure hatred for SF that makes you feel this way?
Well, maybe it has something to do with the fact that I was working 2-3 jobs at a time just to pay rent on my ****ty Oakland apartment and didn't have time to find/couldn't afford the more worthwhile activities. I mean... I went to bars, I went to a lot of local events and went to the parks and beaches and museums. I made an effort to meet people and try to have a good time. I had a good time at the restaurants and some of the events, but after a few years it seemed like I was just going to the same yuppified SF things over and over again, and I'm not into new age/hippie stuff, so that cuts out a huge section of what people do for fun there.

SF also makes me claustrophobic, whereas NYC definitely wouldn't. I like the anonymity/big city feel of LA. I like that you can go out and feel like every day is an adventure, and nobody cares what you do. After 2-3 years in SF, I would get on the BART or walk down the street and see somebody I knew practically every other day, and I felt the need to maintain some 'identity' all the time. Some people would find this comforting, I just found it annoying. If I wanted to live in a small town where everybody knew my business, I would.

Now obviously, SF is way better than a lot of places and I'm baised toward LA because I grew up there. I would rather live in SF than some podunk part of the US any day, but I just think that people have this 'SF can do no wrong' attitude and it rubs me the wrong way. At least in LA, everybody admits that it's a little dysfunctional, but the people are friendly, and it's home!
 
Old 08-12-2009, 04:42 AM
 
35 posts, read 54,618 times
Reputation: 27
San Francisco~ Pacific Heights or Sausalito or from what I have been told Los Angeles ~Topanga Canyon circa 1970's

Last edited by boulderama; 08-12-2009 at 04:51 AM..
 
Old 08-12-2009, 05:15 AM
 
Location: Earth at the moment
321 posts, read 1,006,558 times
Reputation: 128
SF is pretty legendary!!
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