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That's because a few blocks away you've got highrise condos. But it doesn't change the fact the Toronto does not consistently maintain high structural density even in its urban core. Even a cursory look on Google makes that obvious. You have high density corridors and then just blocks away SFH streets. There is nothing wrong with that, but that doesn't exactly scream Manhattan.
You said
Quote:
Some Toronto enthusiasts over here clearly suffer from illusions of grandeur.
I've been reading this forum for a long, long, long time, and I've never seen Toronto forumers say Toronto was as dense as NYC. I don't want to call you a liar, so can you please specify which forumers made this claim with a link to these threads so I can see what you're talking about.
And you really should visit a place before judging it's density. Judging a place's structural density by looking at picture on the internet is absurd. The Toronto Google Streetview isn't even up-to-date. Many of the places look nothing today like they did in 2009 Streetview pictures.
PS, it's "delusions of grandeur", not "illusions of grandeur".
Percentage of city population living in areas of 20,000psm or higher are.......
Los Angeles: 52% Chicago: 42% Toronto: 38%
You're comparing something completely different. The numbers given were for urbanized areas, not cities. They guy who responded to you suggest you compare them as percentage of the urbanized area that lives above 20k.
Chicago's UA has 9.1 million, while Toronto's only has 6.1 million. If you look at RaymondChandlerLives numbers (which were calculated using urbanized areas, not city propers) as a percentage of the urbanized area:
Toronto is a great city, but it really is no match for New York. It along with Montreal are both good Canadian alternatives to New York though, as they are both vibrant and cosmopolitan urban cities. Toronto in my opinion is comparable to Chicago, and Montreal is comparable to Boston or San Francisco.
Being in Canada, both cities also have many major advantages over any US cities (New York included) in terms of standard of living and quality of life. They're no New Yorks, but they're both still among the best places in the world a person could choose to live in.
Further to this, Toronto should not be mentioned in the same breath as NYC. Two entirely different urban experiences. Toronto is a big city, NYC is gargantuan gotham. Frankly, Toronto does not sustain the urbanity and big city feel of Chicago either. People can post more numbers about people per square mile but simply walk the cities. Toronto feels more on par with philadelphia, perhaps a bit larger, but as much as Torontonians want to compare to NYC, it's an abject fallacy.
but as much as Torontonians want to compare to NYC, it's an abject fallacy.
No. It's a lie that Torontonians want to make this comparison. This thread was started by a New Yorker, not a Torontonian. It's New Yorkers that are obsessed with comparing New York to Toronto. Not Torontonians.
Out of curiosity, who told you that Torontonians want to make this comparison? I just perused the first several pages of this forum, and I could not find one Toronto vs. New York thread started by a Torontonian. They're all started by New Yorkers.
You're comparing something completely different. The numbers given were for urbanized areas, not cities. They guy who responded to you suggest you compare them as percentage of the urbanized area that lives above 20k.
Chicago's UA has 9.1 million, while Toronto's only has 6.1 million. If you look at RaymondChandlerLives numbers (which were calculated using urbanized areas, not city propers) as a percentage of the urbanized area:
LA: 13.1%
Chicago: 12.3%
Toronto: 16.2%
Yeah you are right, my mistake........and you know what? I'm STILL not impressed. I can see Chicago, it's kinda misleading how everybody sees it as second only to NY in that aspect. But, here's where I call it a wash. LA may be 3% behind Toronto, but LA's urban area is 14.9 MILLION!! That's a lot of f*king people. So being 3% ahead of LA with less than half of the people doesn't really mean anything to me. That's like basketball player A having a freethrow % of 90% out of 200 shots compared to player B having a freethrow % of 87% out of 1000 shots.
So there you have it, New York AND Los Angeles are more Urban than Toronto. Still not bad considering the guy I was "correcting" said that only ONE American city was moreso
No. It's a lie that Torontonians want to make this comparison. This thread was started by a New Yorker, not a Torontonian. It's New Yorkers that are obsessed with comparing New York to Toronto. Not Torontonians.
Out of curiosity, who told you that Torontonians want to make this comparison? I just perused the first several pages of this forum, and I could not find one Toronto vs. New York thread started by a Torontonian. They're all started by New Yorkers.
Good point, I did not notice it was a New Yorker who started this thread. BTW-- Toronto is a great city, and can stand on its own merits, but I've have seen Torontans (?) -- on several occasions trying to compare Toronto to NYC. But for the purpose of this thread, it was a New Yorker who started the thread.
Yeah you are right, my mistake........and you know what? I'm STILL not impressed. I can see Chicago, it's kinda misleading how everybody sees it as second only to NY in that aspect. But, here's where I call it a wash. LA may be 3% behind Toronto, but LA's urban area is 14.9 MILLION!! That's a lot of f*king people. So being 3% ahead of LA with less than half of the people doesn't really mean anything to me. That's like basketball player A having a freethrow % of 90% out of 200 shots compared to player B having a freethrow % of 87% out of 1000 shots.
So there you have it, New York AND Los Angeles are more Urban than Toronto. Still not bad considering the guy I was "correcting" said that only ONE American city was moreso
I'm curious when was the last time you were in Toronto and how much time you've spent here. I've been to L.A., and it if far, far less urban than Toronto. Los Angeles if very auto oriented. And if you want to compare city proper to city proper (which is what you did with your calculations), Toronto is near 11,000 ppms, while L.A. is less than 9000 ppsm.
So there you have it, Toronto is more urban than Los Angeles. I don't care how much larger L.A.'s population is than Toronto's. Larger doesn't mean more urban. I really wasn't impressed with L.A.'s "urbanity" if you will. I've been to countless cities with a much smaller population than L.A. that are far more urban. Toronto is one of them.
Good point, I did not notice it was a New Yorker who started this thread. BTW-- Toronto is a great city, and can stand on its own merits, but I've have seen Torontans (?) -- on several occasions trying to compare Toronto to NYC. But for the purpose of this thread, it was a New Yorker who started the thread.
Can you give me a link to these threads where a Torontonian started a comparison of Toronto vs. New York please. I searched and I couldn't find a single one.
CityA having more people living above an arbitrary density than CityB does not make it more urban. That really has nothing to do with it. Being urban has more to do with things like transit ridership mode share, urban continuity, built form of commercial development (strip malls with parking lots vs. streetfront retail, malls with surface parking vs. malls with underground parking, etc.), and the like. By these measures Toronto is far more urban than L.A. Hell, Amsterdam has a small fraction L.A.'s population, yet is inifinitely more urban.
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