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I know some of it was long, but did you read anything I wrote before you started your downtown argument?
Literally nowhere in any of my posts did I mention anything about a skyline. Not once. I didn't mention skylines because they aren't important. I don't care about DC's skyline or lack thereof. The only reason I mentioned the height restrictions is because they force the new buildings in DC to be short, fat and long. That's not a good thing from a pedestrian standpoint because it makes streetwalls that look like this instead of this. The second one (Georgetown) is FAR better from a pedestrian standpoint because the smaller buildings, slightly curving street and variety of storefronts are far more appealing. Almost every great shopping street has that type of variety. The first shot is a shot of downtown DC. Right where I typically stay. It's boring. The buildings are in credibly long and there's not much variety in terms of appearance of storefronts. Much of downtown DC looks like that and that's why I would not brag about how wonderful downtown DC is. Especially when compared to other parts of DC.
If you read my first post, the majority of it was making a case for Washington DC being the better city. As other posters have pointed out it was a far better case than any you or the other DC supporters have made so far. I mentioned that DC has better museums (and free museums). I mentioned that the weather is better in the opinion of most. I also mentioned that while Boston has one of the best park systems (the Emerald Necklace), DC's parks are better. Why are you even bringing that up again? I never debated it in the first place.
To answer your question, "What exactly am I going to do in Boston's downtown compared to downtown DC?": It's simple. Downtown Boston is a living, breathing free museum. If you're into free museums, the Freedom Trail is arguably one of the best free ways to get a glimpse of American History. Along that route, you'll see Paul Revere's House, the Boston Common (though it's not the Mall, the Boston Common/Public Garden are two of the best public spaces in the U.S.), Granary Burying Ground (where you'll see the graves of John Hancock, Paul Revere, Samuel Adams, and Phillis Wheatley among others), the Boston Massacre site, Old State House, U.S.S. Constitution (free to visit), and the Bunker Hill Monument (also free to visit). Quincy Market/ Faneuil Hall is one of the most visited sites in the country and for good reason, cheap food and a lot of history. Downtown Boston is literally right on the oceanfront too. There's a great Aquarium (one thing DC lacks is a good Aquarium... their small branch of the National Aquarium isn't really impressive) and many, many places to relax and enjoy the ocean. The North End is one of the best little Italy neighborhoods in the U.S. Nothing in D.C. comes close.
I will say this. If your intent is to go to museums, there's absolutely no question that D.C. is head and shoulders above Boston. However, by most other metrics that people use to compare downtown areas (food, drink, pedestrian experience, architecture, etc.), Boston is, in my experience, more enjoyable. I emphasize the word "enjoyable" because I'm not comparing statistics or numbers or square footage. I'm not saying it's bigger. I'm talking about to the untrained visitor, I think walking around downtown Boston is a far more pleasant experience. The crooked streets, the juxtaposition of buildings from the 1700s right next to 600 foot tall skyscrapers, the juxtaposition of a 1700s graveyard next to high rise offices and ultra-modern hotels, and the variety of unique places to grab a bite to eat or drink all make downtown Boston a more pleasant experience. In downtown Boston you get a mix of narrow streets, historic buildings, and a lot of character. In downtown DC you have wider streets, squat boxes for buildings and a lot less character. Obviously that doesn't translate to the neighborhoods outside of downtown, but it's certainly true of the downtown area.
Have you really ever been to DC to make a general statement about super blocks? There are no super blocks in Chinatown or West End or Faragut or Metro Center or Foggy Bottom. Stop trying to appease everyone with a few good comments about DC and then a few swipes. The super blocks in DT DC are along the National Mall and Penn Ave. C, E, F, G, H, I, K, L, M, N streets which run east to west thru DT don't have super blocks. I would put the vibrancy of Gallery Place/Chinatown day or night against anything Boston has to offer.
Have you really ever been to DC to make a general statement about super blocks? There are no super blocks in Chinatown or West End or Faragut or Metro Center or Foggy Bottom. Stop trying to appease everyone with a few good comments about DC and then a few swipes. The super blocks in DT DC are along the National Mall and Penn Ave. C, E, F, G, H, I, K, L, M, N streets which run east to west thru DT don't have super blocks. I would put the vibrancy of Gallery Place/Chinatown day or night against anything Boston has to offer.
You don't read very well, do you?
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Originally Posted by lrfox
I love DC. I grew up in Kensington, MD and the DC area will always be a second home to me
There's really no point in even bothering to respond to either you or MD at this point. You guys repeat the same things over and over and when someone makes a legitimate point, you simply declare it to be false and then repeat the same stuff you said before.
For what it's worth, you could probably argue DC's Chinatown is on megablocks if you're comparing it with Boston's.
There's really no point in even bothering to respond to either you or MD at this point. You guys repeat the same things over and over and when someone makes a legitimate point, you simply declare it to be false and then repeat the same stuff you said before.
For what it's worth, you could probably argue DC's Chinatown is on megablocks if you're comparing it with Boston's.
Chinatown is on a mega block? Are you serious or are you messing with me? A good exmaple of a mega block along with the type of building that lrfox was describing is the FBI HQ on Pennsylvania Ave. Or the IRS or the DOT. Most of these buildings have like 5,000 employees and take up a huge block. These type of buildings are found along PA ave and the National Mall. South of Dupont Circle does not have mega blocks, nor does West End, Gallery Place, Farragut Square, NOMA, etc. In fact, the numbered streets and alphabet streets like 18 & M are very narrow. People make generalizations all the time about DT DC which leads me to believe that they have never ever been. I've heard that DT DC is an office park to it dies at 5 pm which is totally ridiculous. In fact, areas in DT DC are just as vibrant as anything Boston can muster up. See my Chinatown reference! Day or night.
Thanks, tmac. It's like talking to a parrot that only knows 3 words.
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Originally Posted by MDAllstar
Please tell me you did not try to put a house and some graves up against the biggest museum complex in the world...LOL
I didn't. In fact, I said the following before I posted about the Freedom Trail: "I will say this. If your intent is to go to museums, there's absolutely no question that D.C. is head and shoulders above Boston.". You need to learn to read. You mentioned free museums then asked what Boston offered that you would enjoy. Anyone who enjoys museums would enjoy the Freedom Trail because it's a unique way to experience colonial and revolutionary history that only Boston offers. Never said it's better. Again, learn to read.
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Also, why are you telling me about Georgetown when we are talking about downtown? Downtown Boston does not look like Georgetown either.
Sigh... I feel like a broken record. Learn to read. I simply posted a link to a street shot of Georgetown because I wanted to show you a mediocre streetscape (the downtown DC shot) to a great pedestrian streetscape and thought you might like to see an example from your own city. Guess you missed the point.
For what it's worth, Newbury St., a block over from Boylston (which is now pretty well known after last Monday) could give Georgetown a run for its money. So could Charles street which runs right into the Common in downtown Boston. Here's a shot of Newbury and here's a shot of Charles.
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I have not been arguing which city is better. I don't really care. I don't ever participate in those discussions. It's pointless. All I do is point out development going on in almost every thread I participate in on this site. It's really the only reason I come on here to begin with. You may not like big buildings, but my favorite part of NYC is midtown so maybe that will shed some light on what I like versus what you like. Lights, people walking, concrete, energy, that's what I like. Quiet low slung buildings are what I don't like. I live in a high-rise building and have no desire to ever live in a single family row house neighborhood. By the way, street walls are the biggest requirement for extreme urbanity. You seem to like lower development intensity.
Neither have I. My point was that the never ending boasting about downtown DC from you and a few others is ridiculous. Your response has driven that point home, so thank you.
I never said I don't like big buildings (again, learn to read). I said I don't like short, fat buildings that are land scrapers and megablocks. Midtown Manhattan works well because the buildings are also VERY tall and the density of people is incredibly high as a result. That creates the great street feel in NYC.
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Originally Posted by iAMtheVVALRUS
I also think I need to disagree with this. While the museums and monuments around the mall are fantastic and better than those in Boston, I personally think that the sandlot otherwise known as the mall itself pales in comparison as a public space to the grassy, willow tree and flower-covered common & public garden. I mean couldn't DC invest in a little pavement!
I wasn't really referring to the National Mall. In the summer, trying to step out from the shady sidewalks to cross to the other side of the Mall on a hot day is an absolute nightmare. That said, it's tough to argue that DC doesn't have some of the best public spaces. Not only the monuments, but the squares and a whole ribbon of parks (and the Zoo) that weaves through the Northwestern part of the city are outstanding.
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Originally Posted by DC's Finest
Have you really ever been to DC to make a general statement about super blocks? There are no super blocks in Chinatown or West End or Faragut or Metro Center or Foggy Bottom. Stop trying to appease everyone with a few good comments about DC and then a few swipes. The super blocks in DT DC are along the National Mall and Penn Ave. C, E, F, G, H, I, K, L, M, N streets which run east to west thru DT don't have super blocks. I would put the vibrancy of Gallery Place/Chinatown day or night against anything Boston has to offer.
You need to learn to read too. The BIGGEST superblocks and landscrapers are along the mall and around Federal Triangle. But the downtown area is still chalk full of squat, fat boxes that are incredibly unappealing. The streetview image I linked to wasn't even from the area along the mall. It was around Metro Center (11th at H). Downtown DC has a ton of short, fat, long buildings.
But the downtown area is still chalk full of squat, fat boxes that are incredibly unappealing. The streetview image I linked to wasn't even from the area along the mall. It was around Metro Center (11th at H). Downtown DC has a ton of short, fat, long buildings.
Chinatown is on a mega block? Are you serious or are you messing with me? A good exmaple of a mega block along with the type of building that lrfox was describing is the FBI HQ on Pennsylvania Ave. Or the IRS or the DOT. Most of these buildings have like 5,000 employees and take up a huge block. These type of buildings are found along PA ave and the National Mall. South of Dupont Circle does not have mega blocks, nor does West End, Gallery Place, Farragut Square, NOMA, etc. In fact, the numbered streets and alphabet streets like 18 & M are very narrow. People make generalizations all the time about DT DC which leads me to believe that they have never ever been. I've heard that DT DC is an office park to it dies at 5 pm which is totally ridiculous. In fact, areas in DT DC are just as vibrant as anything Boston can muster up. See my Chinatown reference! Day or night.
I don't even mean this as a bad thing...it's just built on huge blocks comparatively speaking. There's no point in addressing the vibrancy thing because as I said in a previous post, you guys have it set in your head that DC can't be matched in anything, let alone lose.
That said...can you at least admit that these blocks are far larger than those in Boston?
Thanks, tmac. It's like talking to a parrot that only knows 3 words.
I didn't. In fact, I said the following before I posted about the Freedom Trail: "I will say this. If your intent is to go to museums, there's absolutely no question that D.C. is head and shoulders above Boston.". You need to learn to read. You mentioned free museums then asked what Boston offered that you would enjoy. Anyone who enjoys museums would enjoy the Freedom Trail because it's a unique way to experience colonial and revolutionary history that only Boston offers. Never said it's better. Again, learn to read.
Sigh... I feel like a broken record. Learn to read. I simply posted a link to a street shot of Georgetown because I wanted to show you a mediocre streetscape (the downtown DC shot) to a great pedestrian streetscape and thought you might like to see an example from your own city. Guess you missed the point.
For what it's worth, Newbury St., a block over from Boylston (which is now pretty well known after last Monday) could give Georgetown a run for its money. So could Charles street which runs right into the Common in downtown Boston. Here's a shot of Newbury and here's a shot of Charles.
Neither have I. My point was that the never ending boasting about downtown DC from you and a few others is ridiculous. Your response has driven that point home, so thank you.
I never said I don't like big buildings (again, learn to read). I said I don't like short, fat buildings that are land scrapers and megablocks. Midtown Manhattan works well because the buildings are also VERY tall and the density of people is incredibly high as a result. That creates the great street feel in NYC.
I wasn't really referring to the National Mall. In the summer, trying to step out from the shady sidewalks to cross to the other side of the Mall on a hot day is an absolute nightmare. That said, it's tough to argue that DC doesn't have some of the best public spaces. Not only the monuments, but the squares and a whole ribbon of parks (and the Zoo) that weaves through the Northwestern part of the city are outstanding.
You need to learn to read too. The BIGGEST superblocks and landscrapers are along the mall and around Federal Triangle. But the downtown area is still chalk full of squat, fat boxes that are incredibly unappealing. The streetview image I linked to wasn't even from the area along the mall. It was around Metro Center (11th at H). Downtown DC has a ton of short, fat, long buildings.
Please provide me with a pic of a super block that is not along Pennsylvania Ave or near the National Mall. I agree that DC does have 12 to 13 story buildings all over DT that resemble boxes but they are not on super blocks.
I don't even mean this as a bad thing...it's just built on huge blocks comparatively speaking. There's no point in addressing the vibrancy thing because as I said in a previous post, you guys have it set in your head that DC can't be matched in anything, let alone lose.
That said...can you at least admit that these blocks are far larger than those in Boston?
The Boston pic features a tighter street. But that doesn't make Chinatown a super block. I live in DC and I can point you to some amazing super blocks. The majority of them are Federal. Chinatown is the worse example of a super block. It's an average street. In fact, walking from 7th & H to 6th & H (the pic you provided) only takes 2 minutes. Try again!
I don't need to try again man...my point was comparing Boston to Washington DC in terms of block size. Comparatively, the DC blocks are enormous and far less pedestrian friendly than the ones in Boston. That was the only point I was trying to make.
Just for fun, here's some of the stats MDAllstar provided in his thread about sprawling downtowns:
Jobs within a 3 mile radius of the CBD: Washington DC: 21.8% of the workforce, 473,061 total jobs. Boston: 29.2% of the workforce, 595,420 total jobs.
So apparently, while DC has more office space...Boston has nearly 125,000 more workers in a 3 mile radius. Interesting.
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