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View Poll Results: Is Philly-San Francisco A Reasonable Comparison?
Yes 64 49.23%
No 66 50.77%
Voters: 130. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-21-2012, 12:27 AM
 
Location: So California
8,372 posts, read 8,440,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roshaq View Post
Don't compare them. Every city is different for a reason. Just enjoy the unique things about both and stop moanin about it.

Actually, I agree with you!
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Old 06-21-2012, 12:55 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
15,404 posts, read 24,375,629 times
Reputation: 8769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343 View Post
Also most of San Fran's crime is centered outside of the city in places like Oakland and a lot of the wealth is centered in the city.
Much of the SE section of SF is garbage and has some pretty crime ridden areas. Also just a few blocks from Union Square and surrounding the Civic Center area is the Tenderloin, which is absolute crackhead hell. Does Philly have a neighborhood like the Tenderloin that close to City Center and tourist areas? On rare occasions a tourist has been a victim of violence, such as a German tourist getting killed by a stray bullet.
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Old 06-21-2012, 01:05 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,702 posts, read 11,341,283 times
Reputation: 3538
Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
Much of the SE section of SF is garbage and has some pretty crime ridden areas. Also just a few blocks from Union Square and surrounding the Civic Center area is the Tenderloin, which is absolute crackhead hell. Does Philly have a neighborhood like the Tenderloin that close to City Center and tourist areas? On rare occasions a tourist has been a victim of violence, such as a German tourist getting killed by a stray bullet.
Not really... the closest bad parts to any of the tourist attractions are Francisville and West Poplar north of Fairmount Ave, west of 19th st and east of 9th street in North Philadelphia. To give you an idea that is about a mile and a half from City Hall....and these neighborhoods are NO WHERE NEAR THE WORST SECTIONS OF THE CITY.

The closest tourist will come to these sections is if they visit Eastern State Penitentiary (the Penitentiary itself is in a good neighborhood but 6-7 blocks to the east the neighborhood starts to decline where it turns into Francisville.

The only other time tourists would come close to bad areas is if for some reason they were to visit Temple University in North Philadelphia or La Salle University in North Philadelphia.

The worst parts of the city are in the center of North Philadelphia and in the Center of West Philadelphia. Of course that's pretty vague and a bit of a generalization but you get the idea.

The good majority of crime happens deep in the heart of North Philadelphia in neighborhoods like Strawberry Mansion, Hunting Park, Tioga, Allegheny, North Central and West Kensington (the Badlands).

Like mentioned before by many Philly posters. The heavy crime is centered in certain areas for the most part and the heavy crime is really no where near downtown... of course there are the occasional robberies or fights between locals but it stays tame in Center City most of the time.

Last edited by RightonWalnut; 06-21-2012 at 01:22 AM..
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:40 AM
 
Location: Nob Hill, San Francisco, CA
2,346 posts, read 3,196,748 times
Reputation: 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVitamin View Post
Untrue (to his comparison) to a certain extent. If we factor out Center City then yes, there is a similar downtown vibe and look. But let's face it, CC is the core of downtown Philly and last time I was there in Oakland, it has nothing like CC unless you include Emeryville, and if you include Berkley it could be like University City or vice versa.
I am comparing downtown to downtown and I never said its exactly like "center city". I said its similar and it could pass off as a mini version of it. Do you know what mini means? Smaller scale size of something. Obviously Philly being the bigger denser city will have a larger downtown but tell me how it feels so much more different than Oakland.
Quote:
And I'm not sure what he means by "activity", seems to have negated that in the same statement though. Not sure where he's going with that. From previous posts he's made about Phily ... I wouldn't give any credence to his claims.
Activity meaning amenities. I was not discrediting Phily's downtown just making a comparison and I wont back down from it. Downtown Oakland can pass off as a mini version of downtown Phily.

http://texaswatertowers.com/kayandly..._oakland_2.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7273/6...5d4fae96_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7279/7...6b647e4c_z.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5232/6...804f4608_z.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5238/6...1ebf986d_z.jpg


Oakland is grittier than San Francisco or San Jose and in that way its more like Phily. Its downtown is always active and pedestrian traffic is big for a city its size. Even its architecture is historic like the cities back east. This "Bill Cobb" of Flikr has a good collection from cities all over on his photostream. He's a very talented photo shooter.

Read the intro on Oakland and see more good photos here. It can pass off as a mini downtown Phily, no doubt. http://www.terragalleria.com/califor...a.oakland.html
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:48 AM
 
Location: Nob Hill, San Francisco, CA
2,346 posts, read 3,196,748 times
Reputation: 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainrock View Post
The problem with that photo of the SF coast is its also fairly inaccessible. Other than die hard surfers in wetsuits what kind of fun can you have on that northcoast?


The Philadelphia area obviously doesnt have the iconic landscape of Bay Area but overall you could probably make the argument that it is more livable. For every neat, interesting, desolate, mountain top in SF there is a pleasant, emerald green, valley in the Philadelphia region.

The barrier islands of South Jersey like Wildwood,Ocean City,Cape May have summertime population density numbers off the charts. Like 50,000 ppsq.m.
Where is this in New Jersey, what beach?
http://www.blueoceanrealty.com/wp-co...Beaches-NJ.jpg


I have been all over the coast there and have never seen the water this blue. I tried to go to the "upload" site this picture is from but looks like it was uploaded there under the name "wildwood". In fact even their site doesn't advertise sky blue color beaches with white sand. http://www.blueoceanrealty.com/wp-co...loads/2012/05/

Didnt know NJ had white sand beaches like Florida. I looked up "wildwood" beach and just as a I thought the waters aren't that blue. They are decent but nothing that nice looking. Looked up Ocean City and its not that nice looking and I have been there and it wasn't that nice. In fact the Atlantic that far north is normally dark blue not sky blue clear like your picture. So where is your picture from? Wildwood beach panorama | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I found the upload site and it looks like anyone can upload pictures of any other place and rename it and store on this sites server. So I call BS that your picture is in NJ, I wont believe it unless you show me a similar quality beach in NJ from a reputable site. LOL. http://www.blueoceanrealty.com/wp-co...loads/2012/05/
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Old 06-21-2012, 03:06 AM
 
Location: Nob Hill, San Francisco, CA
2,346 posts, read 3,196,748 times
Reputation: 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343 View Post
however, most of Philly's wealth is Centered OUTSIDE of the city like it always has been in Chester County, Bucks County, The Main Line and some other areas of Montgomery County, Cherry Hill and other locations in New Jersey and there is not much crime in the surrounding suburbs outside of the usual cities...Camden, Chester and Wilmington. What you may not realize is these cities are VERY small both population and square mileage wise.

I think they are absolutely comparable. Just different beasts. San Fran has more wealth in the city and Philly's wealth is for the most part centered outside the city except for the neighborhoods I listed.
So you are saying that Phily is tit for tat as wealthy as San Francisco when you compare metros? I wont even bother comparing CSAs because that would be a blowout for San Francisco but heres something you should see MSAd houses valued over $1 million.

NYC 231,051
Boston 47,347
San Jose 67,521
San Francisco 132,783

Phily 22,039

http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/...html?fpt=table

Phily is not in San Francisco's league when it comes to desirable housing, its not in NYC's league, or Boston's league, and not even in San Jose's league.

Last edited by scrantiX; 06-21-2012 at 03:17 AM..
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Old 06-21-2012, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Here&There
2,208 posts, read 3,500,953 times
Reputation: 2414
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrantiX View Post
I am comparing downtown to downtown and I never said its exactly like "center city". I said its similar and it could pass off as a mini version of it. Do you know what mini means?
Yes.

Quote:
Smaller scale size of something. Obviously Philly being the bigger denser city will have a larger downtown but tell me how it feels so much more different than Oakland.
Well you were making an objective "likeness" comparison, but you're asking me for a subjective distinction? Alright, Oakland doesn't have the depth of history, Oakland doesn't have distinct more developed neighborhoods right next to each other, and Oakland's art scene is not even close to being a mini version of Philly's. Also, does Oakland have anything like Walnut St, Chestnut west of Broad St?

Quote:
Activity meaning amenities. I was not discrediting Phily's downtown just making a comparison and I wont back down from it. Downtown Oakland can pass off as a mini version of downtown Phily.
Did I write that you were discrediting, no, I was answering another poster's inquiry. If that's how you feel, alright.

Quote:
Oakland is grittier than San Francisco or San Jose and in that way its more like Phily. Its downtown is always active and pedestrian traffic is big for a city its size. Even its architecture is historic like the cities back east. This "Bill Cobb" of Flikr has a good collection from cities all over on his photostream. He's a very talented photo shooter.
Have you been to Philly lately, say the past five years?

Quote:
Read the intro on Oakland and see more good photos here. It can pass off as a mini downtown Phily, no doubt. Oakland, California Pictures - California stock photos, fine art prints by QTL
Yep, those pictures does make Oakland look "like" a "mini" version of Philly. You are exactly right.
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
4,265 posts, read 7,187,813 times
Reputation: 3952
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrantiX View Post
So you are saying that Phily is tit for tat as wealthy as San Francisco when you compare metros? I wont even bother comparing CSAs because that would be a blowout for San Francisco but heres something you should see MSAd houses valued over $1 million.

NYC 231,051
Boston 47,347
San Jose 67,521
San Francisco 132,783

Phily 22,039

American FactFinder - Results

Phily is not in San Francisco's league when it comes to desirable housing, its not in NYC's league, or Boston's league, and not even in San Jose's league.
You do realize it's fallacious to equate housing value directly with "desirability," right? Prohibitively expensive housing is definitely not a good thing; at some point it drives out the middle-class of an area, leaving only people on the two ends of the income scale. If you think income levels makes up for expensive housing, then you'd be sorely mistaken. New York and California have among the highest rates of "rent burden" in the country.


http://eyeonhousing.wordpress.com/20...ened-families/

My point is that expensive housing in NY and SF -- and especially NY -- is far more a function of lack of supply, space constraints and strict zoning than it is "desirability."
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland/ Piedmont, CA
31,575 posts, read 53,094,619 times
Reputation: 14494
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveFrom215 View Post

Tourist A: (sighing) "Well, if wasn't for work, I'd still be back there. At least the weather is OK, today. I guess. That sorta reminds me of San Francisco a bit."

Tourist B (wearing SF Giants cap): (condescending sniff) "That is ALL that Philadelphia and San Francisco have in common."
Tourist B would be correct imo.

Philadephia is a nice city and it has its charms and pluses.

But for my taste, its not as desirable as San Francisco.
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Villanova Pa.
4,887 posts, read 12,190,289 times
Reputation: 2574
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrantiX View Post
So you are saying that Phily is tit for tat as wealthy as San Francisco when you compare metros? I wont even bother comparing CSAs because that would be a blowout for San Francisco but heres something you should see MSAd houses valued over $1 million.

NYC 231,051
Boston 47,347
San Jose 67,521
San Francisco 132,783

Phily 22,039

American FactFinder - Results

Phily is not in San Francisco's league when it comes to desirable housing, its not in NYC's league, or Boston's league, and not even in San Jose's league.
I would tend to agree on avg. the city of SF's housing stock is much more enviable than the city of Philadelphias, that is no surprise.

Regionally is where I would disagree that the SF region is more desirable. This is where the SF regions compactness is a deterrent in comparison to Philadelphias widespread beautiful suburban countryside. The COl and QOL that the avg family can enjoy is arguably much better in the Philly area. And its not like the Philly area is this backwards flyover country, it possesses the same fantastic world class amenities as any other major metro in the world, at 65% of the costs.

This info is somewhat outdated(2007) but gives you an idea that eventhough you pay 2x for a house in the Bay Area than the same house in the Philly region, the concentration of wealth in the Philly area is even a little better than SF.

Claritas- 2007 Household Income

Regional Households Income worth $1,000,000 to $1,999,999

NYC- 189,669
LA- 127,556
Chicago- 87,440
Philadelphia- 76,561
SF- 72,631
Washington-72,463
Boston-64,090
Dallas- 51,832
Atlanta-50,834
Detroit-50,164



Regional Household worth $2,000,000 +

NYC- 130,807
LA- 85,313
CHI-56,608
SF-50,990
Wash-50,498
Philadelphia- 48,831
Boston 42,380
Dallas- 33,071
Atlanta 32,1777
Detroit- 31,687
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