U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S. > City vs. City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-10-2012, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 12,567,366 times
Reputation: 3941

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Would you consider those stretches of Aramingo and Atlantic Avenues to be "walkable?"
No not really. I'd probably take a side street to avoid that road if I lived there and had to walk places. They look a little bit like streets in South LA that are more densely developed: los angeles, ca - Google Maps
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-10-2012, 09:38 AM
 
Location: The City
21,945 posts, read 30,810,834 times
Reputation: 7489
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Would you consider those stretches of Aramingo and Atlantic Avenues to be "walkable?"

That stretch of Aramingo gives way to two large box store strip malls. People do walk it but it feels like this vast void along that path as it is basically sorrounded by pretty tight rowhouse nabes. Port Richmond on one side and I guess is Kennsington (or maybe a few blocks away) on the other, in some ways what sorrounds it is probably more important toward walking than is the absolute shopping center, so long as the shopping is not the norm if that makes sense

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Port+...28.92,,0,-4.97

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Port+...,55.73,,0,1.71

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Port+...,60.26,,0,0.31

My aunt lived really close to the shopping strips (one of the links above) and when young would walk there oddly enough

But will say absolutely feels nothing like the walkability of the typical development in Philly, those set backs feel like moats to me on the whole
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2012, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
27,612 posts, read 24,802,203 times
Reputation: 11185
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
No not really. I'd probably take a side street to avoid that road if I lived there and had to walk places. They look a little bit like streets in South LA that are more densely developed: los angeles, ca - Google Maps
I don't see much difference between your link and the last couple of links I posted (which were about three blocks south of Hollywood Boulevard). Why would you consider that area to be unwalkable but not the area where Cahuenga meets De Longpre? They both look and feel equally desolate to me.

Hollywood Boulevard, Los Angeles, California - Google Maps

Hollywood Boulevard, Los Angeles, California - Google Maps

If these are considered the walkable areas of LA, I'd hate to live in the unwalkable areas.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2012, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
27,612 posts, read 24,802,203 times
Reputation: 11185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
To be fair, I did say: "Now downtown DC is physically dense and has a ton of daytime activity, which Atlanta does too (although not quite as much due to stronger competition for office workers from the suburbs)..."
I noticed that. "Not quite as much" implies that the two are somewhat close. It's like saying Kobe Bryant (6'6) is not "quite as" tall as Lebron James (6'8). That makes sense. But it wouldn't make any sense to say that Ty Lawson is not "quite as" tall as Kobe Bryant. There's an eight inch height difference between the two. Similarly, there's a pretty significant disparity between DC's daytime and nighttime pedestrian presence and Atlanta's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
And note that I said daytime activity in particular because I'm making a contrast between daytime and nighttime activity for both cities' downtowns, in which there is a noticeable drop-off. Again, this is the comparison I'm making: the contrast between daytime and nighttime activity in each city's downtown. They are similar in that respect. I'm not making an argument for both downtowns being the same either in terms of the built environment or level of daytime activity because they aren't; I know this.
I understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Well you could actually do that in downtown Atlanta to an extent, but the problem is that although the areas are walkable, they aren't really areas you'd want to walk in/through for both aesthetic and functional reasons (e.g., south downtown which functions like a government district). And yes, Midtown lacks the structural density of downtown, even along Peachtree, and it takes a while to get into the heart of Midtown where most of the action is walking from Gladys Knight's.
I would agree on the south part of downtown where the state house is. But my point was that Charleston offers a much larger walkable footprint than Atlanta does despite being many times smaller. I don't exactly consider West Peachtree Street, Courtland Avenue and Piedmont Avenue to be "walkable" routes. They are walkable in the sense that "they can be walked along" but not walkable in the sense that anyone who is not below the federal poverty line and owns an automobile would ever consider doing it (absent parking in a lot and having to walk a few blocks to get somewhere).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2012, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 12,567,366 times
Reputation: 3941
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I don't see much difference between your link and the last couple of links I posted (which were about three blocks south of Hollywood Boulevard). Why would you consider that area to be unwalkable but not the area where Cahuenga meets De Longpre? They both look and feel equally desolate to me.

Hollywood Boulevard, Los Angeles, California - Google Maps

Hollywood Boulevard, Los Angeles, California - Google Maps
Vermont and Manchester: los angeles, ca - Google Maps
Cahuenga and De Longpre: Hollywood Boulevard, Los Angeles, California - Google Maps

1.) Street width (8 car lanes on Vermont - 7 on Manchester, 4 on Cahuenga - 2 on De Longpre).
2.) In Hollywood, all of the buildings face the street with the exception of the fire station/firefighters museum - the office buildings that look deserted have tenants now. In South LA, three of the four corners have front parking.
3.) Like Aramingo in Philadelphia, the Hollywood street-corner is surrounded by more walkable areas, which I posted in an earlier post (Homewood Ave and Vine St., plus many many more) - it is one of the more pedestrian-unfriendly corners in the neighborhood. In the South LA corner, that is the pinnacle of walkability in that neighborhood.

The Hollywood streetview is the beginning of Hollywoods light-industrial neighborhood. It is a mix of film studios, post-production offices and other media-related companies (you can sort of tell by looking at the offices) mixed with a medium density residential population (14k ppsm in that tract). Most of the pedestrian activity is the local residents and those that work in the offices. I would imagine a lot of people that drive to work in that area park in that monster parking garage on De Longpre, but in my experience, it's probably about 100 a month to park there for work.

Quote:
If these are considered the walkable areas of LA, I'd hate to live in the unwalkable areas.
Vermont and Manchester is what is considered "unwalkable" in Central/South/East LA. The only places that get less walkable in the city are the steep hillside neighborhoods and West SFV neighborhoods.

That being said, I would not be surprised to learn that the Manchester/Vermont corner has significantly higher pedestrian activity than some "new urbanist" developments around the country. Just looking at the streetview shows a large presence.

Last edited by munchitup; 07-10-2012 at 10:24 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2012, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
27,612 posts, read 24,802,203 times
Reputation: 11185
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
Vermont and Manchester is what is considered "unwalkable" in Central/South/East LA. The only places that get less walkable in the city are the steep hillside neighborhoods and West SFV neighborhoods.
But why would you consider that area unwalkable when there are "amenities" all around? There are even people crossing the street.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=los+a...78,,0,6.4&z=17
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2012, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
27,612 posts, read 24,802,203 times
Reputation: 11185
Would you consider this area to be walkable?

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=West+...12,254.86,,0,0

Side note: The sandwich shop on the corner used to be owned by Philadelphians.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2012, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 12,567,366 times
Reputation: 3941
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
But why would you consider that area unwalkable when there are "amenities" all around? There are even people crossing the street.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=los+a...78,,0,6.4&z=17
Fairly dense city lacking pedestrian activity

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Would you consider this area to be walkable?

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=West+...12,254.86,,0,0

Side note: The sandwich shop on the corner used to be owned by Philadelphians.
That corner is nice, but the area itself is a bit isolated from the rest of Atlanta, though the MARTA stop helps with connectivity I'm sure. The West End Mall's parking lot is epically huge, and in fact I would imagine that of the heavily developed area in the north east corner of the West End, it is 50/50 buildings and parking. It is really hard to tell how walkable a place is from streetview IMO, though.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2012, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
27,612 posts, read 24,802,203 times
Reputation: 11185
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
1.) Street width (8 car lanes on Vermont - 7 on Manchester, 4 on Cahuenga - 2 on De Longpre).
De Longpre is a side street so it's naturally going to be narrower than a major arterial thoroughfare. I don't think the width of the streets here necessarily makes the environment less walkable as the lack of storefronts (or housing facing the street) and parking does. When you circle behind all of these little buildings, you see that they all have parking. And it's the parking that causes the sprawl.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Holly...6.37,,0,0&z=16

Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
2.) In Hollywood, all of the buildings face the street with the exception of the fire station/firefighters museum - the office buildings that look deserted have tenants now. In South LA, three of the four corners have front parking.
There is less parking in Hollywood but still a lot of parking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
3.) Like Aramingo in Philadelphia, the Hollywood street-corner is surrounded by more walkable areas, which I posted in an earlier post (Homewood Ave and Vine St., plus many many more) - it is one of the more pedestrian-unfriendly corners in the neighborhood. In the South LA corner, that is the pinnacle of walkability in that neighborhood.
Aramingo Avenue and Hollywood Boulevard are completely different. One half of Aramingo Avenue is full of auto-centric, sprawled out development, which was the result of slum and industrial clearance some time well before I was born. The other half of the Ave flows into very crowded, old, dense, and compact neighborhoods. Hollywood Boulevard, on the other hand, is a linear commercial strip surrounded by more auto-centric development on either side. I just posted the link of Aramingo Ave to show the dramatic change in the physical environment.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2012, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 12,567,366 times
Reputation: 3941
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
De Longpre is a side street so it's naturally going to be narrower than a major arterial thoroughfare. I don't think the width of the streets here necessarily makes the environment less walkable as the lack of storefronts (or housing facing the street) and parking does. When you circle behind all of these little buildings, you see that they all have parking. And it's the parking that causes the sprawl.
The difference in street width is significant. The two streets in South LA are twice as wide as the ones in Hollywood.

As a light industrial area, I think most local pedestrians don't walk down Cahuenga much (I know I don't). It is mostly trafficked by people walking to and from work in that area. There are not a lot of storefronts because the area is zoned for light industrial and some residential, not commercial. And like I said, those offices have new companies in them, so the corner is a lot more lively than the streetview lets on.

Vine is a much more pleasant street to walk down - I went to the Hollywood Forever Cemetery on the 4th of July and took Vine to and from the cemetery. New development and an outdoor screening theater more than make up for the occasional strip mall or drive-thru - there is certainly more "good" development than "bad". In fact, about ten others from the show walked the mile or so back to Hollywood Blvd right around us.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S. > City vs. City
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top