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Old 07-17-2012, 02:33 PM
 
Location: The City
21,945 posts, read 30,803,938 times
Reputation: 7489

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Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
This rating is based on miles traveled rather than the number of riders. NYC, Chicago, DC, SF, and ATL have the most track miles of all heavy rail subway systems in the country by a very large margin. MARTA subway for instance has double the track miles of SEPTA subway lines. It's an interesting metric and provides some validation for theory behind the construction of BART/WMATA/MARTA and how it would serve their regions.

In terms of ridership though, you are correct.

Ahh gotcha makes sense and yes cool graphics. Yes these line are very efficient, they are what I think of hybrid (even moreso in the BART and WMATA) between tradional subway/heavy rail and commuter rail. PATCO in Philly is sort of that model . I always have liked my experience with MARTA, clean and effeciaent and the way to me of most systems for the future. I wishe there ws a MARTA/WMATA style system thea cam out through the western burbs of Philly rather than the light rail/reginal rail system that is here today

Oddly it seems to me that the LA system more mirrors the old form, maybe it is just the density there, not sure
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 12,563,975 times
Reputation: 3941
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Ahh gotcha makes sense and yes cool graphics. Yes these line are very efficient, they are what I think of hybrid (even moreso in the BART and WMATA) between tradional subway/heavy rail and commuter rail. PATCO in Philly is sort of that model . I always have liked my experience with MARTA, clean and effeciaent and the way to me of most systems for the future. I wishe there ws a MARTA/WMATA style system thea cam out through the western burbs of Philly rather than the light rail/reginal rail system that is here today

Oddly it seems to me that the LA system more mirrors the old form, maybe it is just the density there, not sure
Do you mean the LA heavy rail is more like the Philly/NYC HRT vs. a BART-like Hybrid HRT?

That is an interesting question... I think it has a few different factors -

1. LA was always a railroad-based city, so the existing tracks and ROWs made installing the Metrolink system easy and cost efficient

2. Metrolink + a hybrid system like BART would be redundant

3. The LRT in LA is almost a hybrid between light rail and commuter rail (The Gold Line in particular), but HRT is not possible due to a couple street crossings on each line

This is purely conjecture though - Not sure it has much to do with density because SF+SJ+East Bay (basically the BART footprint) is pretty much as close to the density profile of LA as you can get.
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:21 PM
 
Location: The City
21,945 posts, read 30,803,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
Do you mean the LA heavy rail is more like the Philly/NYC HRT vs. a BART-like Hybrid HRT?

That is an interesting question... I think it has a few different factors -

1. LA was always a railroad-based city, so the existing tracks and ROWs made installing the Metrolink system easy and cost efficient

2. Metrolink + a hybrid system like BART would be redundant

3. The LRT in LA is almost a hybrid between light rail and commuter rail (The Gold Line in particular), but HRT is not possible due to a couple street crossings on each line

This is purely conjecture though - Not sure it has much to do with density because SF+SJ+East Bay (basically the BART footprint) is pretty much as close to the density profile of LA as you can get.
In a way, yes but I am not an expert by any means on the LA netwrok ridership per mile would suggest this though; also it seems that LA has shorter distance between stops another factor to me making less hybrid if that makes sense regardless it seems work well goven ridership and riders per mile etc.
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:39 PM
 
Location: In the heights
20,113 posts, read 21,729,745 times
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One thing that is definitely getting off the ground (albeit slowly) in Los Angeles is through-routing of the various commuter rail lines at Union Station. This has the potential to become very important especially for a metro as large as LA, but it remains to be seen if it'll really be taken advantage of. Philly also did some great things with through-routing and there is the potential for the Regional Rail to become something like a S-Bahn for many stops, but it doesn't seem to be living up to that currently.
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Old 07-17-2012, 04:07 PM
 
Location: The City
21,945 posts, read 30,803,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
One thing that is definitely getting off the ground (albeit slowly) in Los Angeles is through-routing of the various commuter rail lines at Union Station. This has the potential to become very important especially for a metro as large as LA, but it remains to be seen if it'll really be taken advantage of. Philly also did some great things with through-routing and there is the potential for the Regional Rail to become something like a S-Bahn for many stops, but it doesn't seem to be living up to that currently.

Through routing is good (Philly's RR lines are underground in the CBD), thing is with Regional Rail is it need to connect to job centers and residents. That is the key because non rush headways tend to be long on Regional Rail lines

Sadly the Philly RR lines are significantly below capacity today, old lines that miss current day employment and residential centers. So much missed TOD opportunity (Suburban Square might actually be the oldest suburban TOD in the country, since then the area the area has forget them I think (a little sarcasm))on the Septa lines. I attribute as much to an archiac set of municiapl boundaries and totally no cohesive regional planning in these parts as even funding
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Old 07-17-2012, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 12,563,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
One thing that is definitely getting off the ground (albeit slowly) in Los Angeles is through-routing of the various commuter rail lines at Union Station. This has the potential to become very important especially for a metro as large as LA, but it remains to be seen if it'll really be taken advantage of. Philly also did some great things with through-routing and there is the potential for the Regional Rail to become something like a S-Bahn for many stops, but it doesn't seem to be living up to that currently.
Actually I don't think any of the Metrolink lines a through-routed - other than the Amtrak Line.

The Gold Line is through routed from Pasadena/SGV to East LA though. The Regional Connector will be a huge game changer for the LRT in LA (instead of a series of generally connected lines, there will be a true LRT "system" in place). It'll allow for one seat rides from Pasadena/SGV to Long Beach and East LA to Santa Monica (basically combining the Expo, Blue and Gold Line and making them two monster LRT lines). I've seen the ridership projections for the project and they are around 90,000 - I'm not sure if that is new riders or not.
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:31 AM
 
Location: In the heights
20,113 posts, read 21,729,745 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
Actually I don't think any of the Metrolink lines a through-routed - other than the Amtrak Line.

The Gold Line is through routed from Pasadena/SGV to East LA though. The Regional Connector will be a huge game changer for the LRT in LA (instead of a series of generally connected lines, there will be a true LRT "system" in place). It'll allow for one seat rides from Pasadena/SGV to Long Beach and East LA to Santa Monica (basically combining the Expo, Blue and Gold Line and making them two monster LRT lines). I've seen the ridership projections for the project and they are around 90,000 - I'm not sure if that is new riders or not.
They aren't currently--but the track connections are getting built which would allow for through-routing.
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 12,563,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
They aren't currently--but the track connections are getting built which would allow for through-routing.
Oh I see - that is cool. I mentioned earlier (maybe in this thread) that LA is one of, if not the only city in the US that has a suburb-to-suburb commuter rail. Because of its multi-nodal nature, LA is one of the few cities in the US where the commuter rail stations outside of the central train station (in this case, Union Station) are also major destinations, so this through-routing could possibly be very successful.

There are some out there that think LA has the potential to have an absolutely great transportation system. This blogger seems to be a pretty big fan of LA, and I like his vision though I think it is a little over-enthusiastic.

Human Transit: los angeles: the next great transit metropolis?

Oh and here is a more accurate 30/10 map from Human Transit:

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Old 07-18-2012, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,211 posts, read 25,902,249 times
Reputation: 8963
Quote:
Originally Posted by HtownLove View Post
I can't understand all the bus hate on CD.

I love riding buses. Not as fancy as rail, but hey, it gets me to work a lot quicker than driving.
I don't know. After living in cities with no transit options at all besides the car and a taxi. Then living in cities that only had bus service. Then living in cities that had both train and bus options. I will say that the train blows the bus out of the water. I don't hate the bus though. At times in DC, I catch the 79 going up GA avenue. But that's because it's limited stops. The 70 bus in DC is one of those accordion busses and it annoyingly stops at every block or so.
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Old 07-18-2012, 01:33 PM
 
Location: In the heights
20,113 posts, read 21,729,745 times
Reputation: 10216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
I don't know. After living in cities with no transit options at all besides the car and a taxi. Then living in cities that only had bus service. Then living in cities that had both train and bus options. I will say that the train blows the bus out of the water. I don't hate the bus though. At times in DC, I catch the 79 going up GA avenue. But that's because it's limited stops. The 70 bus in DC is one of those accordion busses and it annoyingly stops at every block or so.
Yea, that's the thing--buses can operate differently and act more like trains if you give them stuff like limited stops, preboarding ticketing, priority lighting, maps with clearly marked routes, greater frequency and grade separation from traffic. Any combination of those things and other factors can make buses operate very well.

Unrelated is the self-driving car software that's pretty much already finished, but just too nerve-wracking for people right now. Those cars, especially if networked with each other to better negotiate traffic patterns, and combined with higher efficiency vehicles can be a game changer for heavily auto-dependent cities like Los Angeles. Basically on demand taxis that are constantly moving rather than spending their time idling or parked and at a lower price point because there isn't a driver to pay anymore.
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