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Old 07-14-2012, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
2,574 posts, read 3,334,713 times
Reputation: 1692

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Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
I'd estimate by 2030 over half of those are built. The recently passed transportation bill is most likely going to be a huge boon for 30/10. If (big if) measure R+ gets passed you can expect 30/10 to be a reality, and LA may make a gain on the list, depending on how much other cities' systems expand.

The best part is, quite a few of those lines are already funded so will get built, guaranteed, just a matter of when.
It's a misleading map because it's neither a 30/10 map nor are all of those lines included in the long range transportation plan. The line on Slauson, for example. That was studied, but there are no official plans to build it either now or in the future. Same with the Pink Line. And Sepulveda could very well end up being a busway and not light rail. There are other issues with that map, but suffice it to say that it's a fantasy map, not an official map.

As for Measure R+ getting passed, I really hope that doesn't happen. Taxing future generations so that we can enjoy transit sooner is incredibly irresponsible and selfish. Instead of paying as we go, Measure R+ would borrow future money just to build projects quicker. I have a bad feeling that it will set a precedent that will be used to generate revenue for a variety of expenditures. No need to tax ourselves, just vote to tax people 30 years from now!
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Old 07-14-2012, 01:20 PM
 
1,809 posts, read 2,426,265 times
Reputation: 1488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343 View Post
This is the list of all U.S. cities that have a subway

New York City (including Jersey City and Newark)
Philadelphia (including Camden)
Baltimore
Washington D.C.
Atlanta
Boston
Chicago
Cleveland
Los Angeles
The Bay Area
Washington D.C.
Pittsburgh has a brief section of 'subway' within the downtown core-- the T is tunneled underground there and then street level outside of downtown. It's not really a 'true' subway system, but to my knowledge Chicago doesn't have a truer subway system than that, either...
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Old 07-14-2012, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 12,586,286 times
Reputation: 3941
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Easy View Post
It's a misleading map because it's neither a 30/10 map nor are all of those lines included in the long range transportation plan. The line on Slauson, for example. That was studied, but there are no official plans to build it either now or in the future. Same with the Pink Line. And Sepulveda could very well end up being a busway and not light rail. There are other issues with that map, but suffice it to say that it's a fantasy map, not an official map.

As for Measure R+ getting passed, I really hope that doesn't happen. Taxing future generations so that we can enjoy transit sooner is incredibly irresponsible and selfish. Instead of paying as we go, Measure R+ would borrow future money just to build projects quicker. I have a bad feeling that it will set a precedent that will be used to generate revenue for a variety of expenditures. No need to tax ourselves, just vote to tax people 30 years from now!
Definitely a fantasy map... But I did say about half will be built in 30 years realistically, so the Slauson line is one that won't be built for a very long time, same w Pink Line.

As far as measure R+, I'm on the fence too but for different teasons.. I have no problem w taxing future generations for something they'll definitely use. but there are still issues with it.
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Old 07-14-2012, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
2,574 posts, read 3,334,713 times
Reputation: 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
I have no problem w taxing future generations for something they'll definitely use
If previous generations had thought that way, we'd not have any rail because we'd all be paying taxes on additional and double decked freeways and public parking garages. Maybe they should get some say in what they might like to use before we tax them just as we were allowed by previous generations?

In any event, that's all smokescreen as the entire idea of Measure R+ is to tax them not because they will use it, but to tax them because we want to use it. Measure R+ offers no benefit to residents 30+ years out because the projects will be completed by then anyway. The intention is to have people that live 30+ years out pay tax so that we can benefit from the projects sooner. It's to have them pay for our benefit.
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Old 07-14-2012, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 12,586,286 times
Reputation: 3941
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Easy View Post
If previous generations had thought that way, we'd not have any rail because we'd all be paying taxes on additional and double decked freeways and public parking garages. Maybe they should get some say in what they might like to use before we tax them just as we were allowed by previous generations?

In any event, that's all smokescreen as the entire idea of Measure R+ is to tax them not because they will use it, but to tax them because we want to use it. Measure R+ offers no benefit to residents 30+ years out because the projects will be completed by then anyway. The intention is to have people that live 30+ years out pay tax so that we can benefit from the projects sooner. It's to have them pay for our benefit.
Excellent point, especially about the freeways/garages.

I think they'll find other ways to accelerate construction even if it doesn't pass.
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Old 07-14-2012, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Chicago (from pittsburgh)
3,678 posts, read 4,357,555 times
Reputation: 2852
Quote:
Originally Posted by srsmn View Post
Pittsburgh has a brief section of 'subway' within the downtown core-- the T is tunneled underground there and then street level outside of downtown. It's not really a 'true' subway system, but to my knowledge Chicago doesn't have a truer subway system than that, either...


I'm assuming you are referring to how much of the rail is underground vs above ground when referring to a 'true subway system', because nothing else would make sense.

Chicago has heavy rail (Pittsburgh has light rail). More of Chicago's trains are underground, and Chicago's heavy rail network is MUCH larger than Pittsburgh's light rail network. Many Pittsburghers don't even know they have the T. I'm not sure the exact % of Chicago's under vs above ground rail, but It definitely has a larger percent underground than Pittsburgh's.
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Old 07-14-2012, 04:03 PM
 
Location: WASHINGTON, D.C.
163 posts, read 186,484 times
Reputation: 61
NYC
DC
Chicago
Philly
Boston
Baltimore
San Francisco
Los Angeles
Atlanta
Cleveland
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Old 07-14-2012, 05:07 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 1,029,001 times
Reputation: 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAM88 View Post
How would you rank cities in the U.S. in terms of their mass transit system? Overall quality, cleanliness, speed, ease of use, network/coverage, etc.
NYC (except the L line because it's almost always 1/2 hour late and hipsters smell like cigarettes and entitlement...and stank, street/subway performers are awesome though -- there's an amazing Doo-Wop group that does a circuit from the village to Grand central and back)
DC (no problems here)
Chi (except for the purple line which is never on time or the Green line which attracts mad weirdos at night)
Boston (except for the green line which is busted and full of crazies)
SF (also late)

The rest I can't fairly speak for.

That said, London blows all of these cities away.
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Old 07-14-2012, 06:01 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
15,692 posts, read 18,253,080 times
Reputation: 11222
Quote:
Originally Posted by git45 View Post
That said, London blows all of these cities away.
How does London blow away NYC in mass transit?
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Old 07-14-2012, 07:37 PM
 
8,287 posts, read 11,488,372 times
Reputation: 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343 View Post
This is the list of all U.S. cities that have a subway

New York City (including Jersey City and Newark)
Philadelphia (including Camden)
Baltimore
Washington D.C.
Atlanta
Boston
Chicago
Cleveland
Los Angeles
The Bay Area
Washington D.C.
To be more accurate this is a list of cities that have "heavy rail" or what is considered a subway. There are actually only 12 cities/metros in the US with heavy rail and for that reason Miami's Metrorail should be included since it is a heavy rail system except that it is mostly elevated or at ground level. Miami's Metrorail newest extension to the Airport opens July 28th.
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