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You have more experience than I do? I didn't know you knew me so well...no, I'm afraid you don't have more experience than me, and you don't know what you're talking about here. You're making stuff up, more than likely because you didn't like Atlanta - I've seen it many times before on city-data. It's the same old song and dance...most of what you posted is not at all factual.
Yes, I do and you know it. Everything I said was right and you know it.
Next thing you know, you'll be arguing that Atlanta is more urban then NYC. That's how far fetched you are being.
Yes, I do and you know it. Everything I said was right and you know it.
Next thing you know, you'll be arguing that Atlanta is more urban then NYC. That's how far fetched you are being.
Your opinions are apparently jaded by your dislike for the city...most of what you posted was false. Period. And I know it. I have lived in Atlanta for 22 years, so there is no need to act like your little 2-year residency gives you some kind of edge. I am intimately familiar with my city.
Your anger about being called out on your little ugly assertions truly gives you away. There is no need for me to even comment on your last silly accusation. It's just like the rest of your story - imaginary.
Your opinions are apparently jaded by your dislike for the city...most of what you posted was false. Period. And I know it. I have lived in Atlanta for 22 years, so there is no need to act like your little 2-year residency gives you some kind of edge. I am intimately familiar with my city.
Your anger about being called out on your little ugly assertions truly gives you away. There is no need for me to even comment on your last silly accusation. It's just like the rest of your story - imaginary.
I'm talking about the downtown area alone. I live in the Atlanta metro for over 8 years now. I highly doubt you lived in downtown Atlanta considering the population is only around 20,000 which is less then 5% of the city of Atlanta's population.
I don't care if you lived in Atlanta for 22 years. That's exactly the reason you're claiming that I am lying about the current urbanity/density of the city of Atlanta. I'm only stating facts based on what I seen in the 2 years I lived in the urban core of Atlanta.
But hey, even if I'm lying, we can go to statistics and show that 6k ppsm in the urban core is very poor for a city compared to other cities that peak up to 50k+ ppsm. NYC even peaks to 200k+ ppsm.
Atlanta isn't dense and certainly isn't very urban which was the original point of this conversation. It is a suburban city. Face it.
Come back and talk to me when Atlanta has a cohesive urban area where you don't find parking lots littered in it's core...where it has restaurants in all areas of the core, where you can safely walk in downtown, where you can take the train to many parts of the city....WHEN YOU SEE PEOPLE WALKING OUT AT NIGHT in downtown, when there are a lot of residents in the downtown/midtown areas and not living out 10-20 miles out in the suburbs.
Btw, I love the reputation comment you or whoever gave me. I'm not jaded. Far from it. It's funny when you tell the truth and blast Atlanta(I lived in the city so I know best), the Atlanta posters want to try to blast you as if you are telling lies.
Learn to appreciate Atlanta? I live in LA for 12 years and loved it much more then Atlanta. I just visited back in August. Compare their downtown to ours. Big difference. They might have a few parking lots, but it is much more urban. All Atlanta has going on is an airport. A big airport. Other then that, whatever you cna find in Atlanta, you can find elsewhere...there's nothing unique about it.
Don't see how you can be ungrateful for not liking a city LOL. People make me laugh hard.
Let me share the nice urban experience of living in a urban jungle.
NY city- One significant patch of of NY has even more rats than pedestrians. . . . People who used to go to nightclubs now join community boards to stop nightclubs from opening in the neighborhood. Stores are filled with things that would look great in your apartment—if it was five times larger and had a terrace, a garden, and a garage. Downtown NY is nothing I mean nothing like it was in the 80s it was a very happening place not so much these days. The subway A haven to the homeless, rats and roaches, mysterious liquids cascading off the platform in fetid waterfalls and swirling onto the tracks if you are waiting on a train during the summer in the station it feels like Hell and the smells of urine makes it worse. New York may be the Asphalt Jungle, but it’s also a Garbage Dump in many many areas .Like you and everyone else from NY, everything NY has is always ‘The Best’: the best food, the best nightlife, the best people. But we all really know that being a loudmouth is a sign of insecurity.
SF- It's cold and windy almost all the time. While the rest of the country enjoys a pleasant summer day, it's Ice Station.Everything is too ****ing expensive. $1250 for a studio most people in SF have 3 and 4 roommates . Drunks. People yelling outside your window at 2:30 a.m. after the bars close.People who say "I'm a fourth-generation San Franciscan." I'm a fifth-generation Who Gives a crap. You think Homeless in Atlanta are bad hell The homeless problem is atrocious in SF.It's AFWUL and an astounding drag on quality of life, in an absurdly expensive city. Crime u scared to walk at Night in Atlanta well in my experience SF is no different .The epicenter of public transit seems to be Market St., another embarrassment to SF and a prime example of a city that just gave up. Most of Market is a sewer, the transit system is too complicated, waits between trains are just as long Marta , it's too expensive, and many stops are simply unsafe to traverse day or night. A city so proudly hostile to car ownership and which touts "transit first" policies offers a surprisingly crappy alternative.
These are just small cons I can think of with these precious urban cities u love Every city has its Pros and cons. Downtown Atlanta isnt like SF or Chicago or NY hell half of the cities in US aren't. But to say its not urban is a lie this link with these pictures remind me of Downtown brooklyn alot.
Let me share the nice urban experience of living in a urban jungle.
NY city- One significant patch of of NY has even more rats than pedestrians. . . . People who used to go to nightclubs now join community boards to stop nightclubs from opening in the neighborhood. Stores are filled with things that would look great in your apartment—if it was five times larger and had a terrace, a garden, and a garage. Downtown NY is nothing I mean nothing like it was in the 80s it was a very happening place not so much these days. The subway A haven to the homeless, rats and roaches, mysterious liquids cascading off the platform in fetid waterfalls and swirling onto the tracks if you are waiting on a train during the summer in the station it feels like Hell and the smells of urine makes it worse. New York may be the Asphalt Jungle, but it’s also a Garbage Dump in many many areas .Like you and everyone else from NY, everything NY has is always ‘The Best’: the best food, the best nightlife, the best people. But we all really know that being a loudmouth is a sign of insecurity.
SF- It's cold and windy almost all the time. While the rest of the country enjoys a pleasant summer day, it's Ice Station.Everything is too ****ing expensive. $1250 for a studio most people in SF have 3 and 4 roommates . Drunks. People yelling outside your window at 2:30 a.m. after the bars close.People who say "I'm a fourth-generation San Franciscan." I'm a fifth-generation Who Gives a crap. You think Homeless in Atlanta are bad hell The homeless problem is atrocious in SF.It's AFWUL and an astounding drag on quality of life, in an absurdly expensive city. Crime u scared to walk at Night in Atlanta well in my experience SF is no different .The epicenter of public transit seems to be Market St., another embarrassment to SF and a prime example of a city that just gave up. Most of Market is a sewer, the transit system is too complicated, waits between trains are just as long Marta , it's too expensive, and many stops are simply unsafe to traverse day or night. A city so proudly hostile to car ownership and which touts "transit first" policies offers a surprisingly crappy alternative.
These are just small cons I can think of with these precious urban cities u love Every city has its Pros and cons. Downtown Atlanta isnt like SF or Chicago or NY hell half of the cities in US aren't. But to say its not urban is a lie this link with these pictures remind me of Downtown brooklyn alot.
Except NY is nowhere near as dirty as it was 20 years ago. You can finds rats/mice down here in Atlanta. Hell, my parents house 30 miles outside of Atl is infested with mice and it isn't a dirty house...anyone can get rodents.
Again, most, if not all CBD's of decent size cities are urban...that doesn't mean most of the city is urban. There is no cohesiveness in the urbanity outside of Downtown/Midtown. Chicago, LA, NYC, DC, and SF have continuous urbanity outside of the CBD's. As soon as you get out of downtown, you feel like you're back into the suburbs again LOL...there are strip malls literally a mile away from the downtown area.
There's a reason 8M+ people live in NYC proper alone and there is continued demand to live there. Everyone here just wants to drive 80 miles a day to work and back. It's even hard to get more rail here because the counties around the core don't want to pay their share.
I have never been to Minneapolis so I will leave it out in fairness. I lived in Detroit, Miami and currently live in Atlanta. I've been to Seattle a couple times as well as Phoenix. My ranking, and this is just based on "mindset" (trendy, energetic, pace of life)
1)Miami
2)Atlanta
3)Detroit
4)Seattle
5)Phoenix
Density is all well and good but it's not the entire picture or even the most important component.
I'm personally surprised you had Seattle that low! Is it because of its total population? I've been to 4 of the 6 cities and Seattle felt the most urban of the four (including Minneapolis, where I am from and prefer to live). That being said, Detroit has got to be among the highest for amount of infrastructure, as it was built primarily during its hey-day in the early 20th Century and has the bones of a much larger city, but urban decay and the population loss that has come as a result pushes it down the ranking to me. Here'd be my list, based on "worldliness", "importance", "urban-ness", etc.:
1. Miami (hard to deny, really. Don't love its economy a ton but the city is big, urban, and worldly.....and still booming)
2. Atlanta (it's big and has a big presence in that "worldliness"/"importance" factor)
3. Seattle (has the GDP, international-recognition, and urbanity that give it a slight edge on Detroit, which is bigger and international but lately known for the wrong reasons -- i.e. notorious)
4. Detroit (read above. Still a major city with major power and GDP but needs to turn some gains before it can kick out the "lower" MSP and SEA completely)
5. Minneapolis (Right up there with Detroit on all levels except "worldliness". In fact, its biggest weakness, if you want to call it that, is that it's relatively unknown and doesn't yearn for the spotlight)
6. Phoenix (Last for me because I see it mainly as a city with people who like the weather, not an economic powerhouse, international destination, education mecca, etc. It's also highly suburban.)
The "weight" I'd assign each (#1 being the benchmark) would be:
1. 100%
2. 92%
3. 85%
4. 82%
5. 80%
6. 72%
IOW, Phoenix is roughly 5/7 the metro that Miami is, according to the characteristics of the OP, myself and my personal opinion. Clearly, ALL these cities are relavent and important, as all are still clustered near/above the top 25% Quartile.
I'm personally surprised you had Seattle that low! Is it because of its total population? I've been to 4 of the 6 cities and Seattle felt the most urban of the four (including Minneapolis, where I am from and prefer to live). That being said, Detroit has got to be among the highest for amount of infrastructure, as it was built primarily during its hey-day in the early 20th Century and has the bones of a much larger city, but urban decay and the population loss that has come as a result pushes it down the ranking to me. Here'd be my list, based on "worldliness", "importance", "urban-ness", etc.:
1. Miami (hard to deny, really. Don't love its economy a ton but the city is big, urban, and worldly.....and still booming)
2. Atlanta (it's big and has a big presence in that "worldliness"/"importance" factor)
3. Seattle (has the GDP, international-recognition, and urbanity that give it a slight edge on Detroit, which is bigger and international but lately known for the wrong reasons -- i.e. notorious)
4. Detroit (read above. Still a major city with major power and GDP but needs to turn some gains before it can kick out the "lower" MSP and SEA completely)
5. Minneapolis (Right up there with Detroit on all levels except "worldliness". In fact, its biggest weakness, if you want to call it that, is that it's relatively unknown and doesn't yearn for the spotlight)
6. Phoenix (Last for me because I see it mainly as a city with people who like the weather, not an economic powerhouse, international destination, education mecca, etc. It's also highly suburban.)
The "weight" I'd assign each (#1 being the benchmark) would be:
1. 100%
2. 92%
3. 85%
4. 82%
5. 80%
6. 72%
IOW, Phoenix is roughly 5/7 the metro that Miami is, according to the characteristics of the OP, myself and my personal opinion. Clearly, ALL these cities are relavent and important, as all are still clustered near/above the top 25% Quartile.
Yes, there's nothing to do in Phoenix but sit around and think about the weather.
I'm personally surprised you had Seattle that low! Is it because of its total population?
It's mostly because it feels isolated to me. Detroit feels to be plugged into a much larger urban area than Seattle. Phoenix lost points for precisely this. Honestly, this is the downfall of many of the western cities except the coastal california ones which are all connected until more or less sometime past San Francisco.
For example, Detroit is around 6 million in its CSA if you include Windsor. Seattle is about 4 million. But it becomes even more pronounced if you go 300 miles in any direction.
Everytime I went to Seattle, it felt like the last urban outpost before Alaska. I know that's not exactly true, but that's how it feels. Right down to the north face jackets, hiking gear and Subarus. Not to mention those wooden houses with the nice rolling green laws without any fences (like my friend's place).
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