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Old 05-08-2014, 09:49 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,079 posts, read 6,086,886 times
Reputation: 933

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Standard111 View Post
The equivalents to Buckhead are the suburban edge cities. So Paramus, NJ, Tysons Corner, VA, Costa Mesa, CA, King of Prussia, VA, Aventura, FL, Troy, MI and the like.

Buckhead isn't really comparable to an urban neighborhood, at all. It's malls and office parks, and basically no pedestrians. Buckhead is mostly just woodsy lots with big homes, like any rich suburb.
This thread doesn't specify urban vs suburban.

There are 2 parts to Buckhead, the woodsy big lots big homes area you refer to, and the "Buckhead CBD", which is a vertical suburb 5-6 miles from Atlanta's main CBD.

King of Prussia is a lone gigantic mall. Aventura has a mall. Troy has a mall and is a much smaller office district than Buckhead with limited vertical residential, hotels, entertainment options, etc. Costa Mesa is kind of comparable because the general area isn't just South Coast Plaza, there is other upscale shopping nearby, and a mix of uses.

But Buckhead is Atlanta's sole and primary shopping area. It's leagues ahead of the other places you list in almost every way. It has more retail in a more confined space (Lenox and Phipps are across the street from each other and Oliver McMillan's project is 1 mile away, with plenty of options in between).

Listen, there are few moments where I'll defend or praise Atlanta, so it means something when I do. Buckhead is not the same has King of Prussia, Aventura, Troy, Costa Mesa, Tysons Corner (which is perhaps closest to it, though I definitely prefer Buckhead, which is sadly more pleasant, walkable, and interesting than Tysons Corner), etc etc.

~17 million SF of mostly class A high-rise office in buildings that routinely exceed 400 ft, which along with residential high rises in frequency ranging from 10-50 floors produces a skyline that exceeds most core CBDs in this country.

Thousands of hotel rooms (including Westin, the original Ritz Carlton, Mandarin Oriental, St. Regis, Embassy Suites, flagship Intercontinental seeing as how IHG North America is based in Atlanta, JW Marriott attached to Lenox, etc etc).

And nearly every department store and major label of mid-range to uber luxe represented in quite a confined area that isn't much larger than the Back Bay, an urban and walkable district in Boston.

Lenox Square has 1.6 million SF itself, and is anchored by a 274,000 SF Bloomingdale's (large, almost as large as SF's, which is 2nd largest), 433,000 SF Macy's (one of the largest Macy's), and 205,000 SF Neiman Marcus, which is very large for Neiman's.

*Across the street* is Phipps (821,000 SF), anchored by Saks, Nordstrom, and Belk flagship, along with an AMC theater, includes mostly high end stores such as Bottega Veneta, Valentino, Trina Turk, Jimmy Choo, etc etc. Lenox has a lot of high end stores, as well, but also contains traditional higher end mall stores such as Lacoste, Kenneth Cole, Urban Outfitters, Pottery Barn, etc etc.

Shops Around Lenox is adjacent to Lenox Square, and is 125,000 SF anchored by Crate & Barrel and includes well known boutiques. It just sold for $600/sf and is essentially a fancy strip center, so it has fetched a high price point for sunbelt suburban shopping, indicative of rents, credits, and submarket pricing assumptions (lower cap rate, etc).

So on what is equivalent to probably 15 city blocks (small for a sunbelt area) you have over 2.5 million SF of very high end shopping. That is more square footage than King of Prussia Mall(s).

A mile away you have this development being mentioned, with the 28 stores mentioned out of 80, for an additional 320,000 SF. That's almost 2.9 million SF of mostly high end shopping between 2 malls, an outdoor master-planned mixed-use development, and a high end strip, within 1-2 square miles.

In between you easily have another 1,000,000 SF of shopping (ULTA, Whole Foods, North Face, Orvis, Container Store, etc etc). Restoration Hardware is constructing a 6 story flagship.

In a nutshell, Buckhead is leagues ahead of most, if not all other "fringe suburban" shopping areas. But I still wouldn't put it ahead of the urban world-class shopping districts of this country.
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Old 05-08-2014, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,700 posts, read 14,600,572 times
Reputation: 3663
At this point I would say it's probably:

NYC
Chicago
San Francisco
Chicago
Boston
Philadelphia
Seattle
Washington DC
Miami

The rest are all shopping centers and shopping malls, not a shopping district.
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Old 05-08-2014, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
9,828 posts, read 9,351,704 times
Reputation: 6288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343 View Post
At this point I would say it's probably:

NYC
Chicago
San Francisco
Chicago
Boston
Philadelphia
Seattle
Washington DC
Miami

The rest are all shopping centers and shopping malls, not a shopping district.
The Golden Triangle in Beverly Hills?!
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Old 05-08-2014, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
1,186 posts, read 1,497,652 times
Reputation: 1342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Standard111 View Post
Ok, but it's still suburban, and not really about the thread topic.
Who created this thread? I think this is exactly what I had in mind.

Thank you for telling me about myself though.
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Old 05-08-2014, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,700 posts, read 14,600,572 times
Reputation: 3663
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondChandlerLives View Post
The Golden Triangle in Beverly Hills?!
Edit: I know what happened. I went to type LA but typed Chicago twice. You're shopping is good Chitown but not that good

Sorry completely forgot LA! I went to type it and idk what happened after that! Just drew a blank I guess! Haha. Updated list:

NYC
Los Angeles
San Francisco
Chicago
Boston
Philadelphia
Seattle
Washington DC
Miami
I'd probably put Atlanta 10th with these new developments
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Old 05-08-2014, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
1,186 posts, read 1,497,652 times
Reputation: 1342
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsimms3 View Post
This thread doesn't specify urban vs suburban.

There are 2 parts to Buckhead, the woodsy big lots big homes area you refer to, and the "Buckhead CBD", which is a vertical suburb 5-6 miles from Atlanta's main CBD.

King of Prussia is a lone gigantic mall. Aventura has a mall. Troy has a mall and is a much smaller office district than Buckhead with limited vertical residential, hotels, entertainment options, etc. Costa Mesa is kind of comparable because the general area isn't just South Coast Plaza, there is other upscale shopping nearby, and a mix of uses.

But Buckhead is Atlanta's sole and primary shopping area. It's leagues ahead of the other places you list in almost every way. It has more retail in a more confined space (Lenox and Phipps are across the street from each other and Oliver McMillan's project is 1 mile away, with plenty of options in between).

Listen, there are few moments where I'll defend or praise Atlanta, so it means something when I do. Buckhead is not the same has King of Prussia, Aventura, Troy, Costa Mesa, Tysons Corner (which is perhaps closest to it, though I definitely prefer Buckhead, which is sadly more pleasant, walkable, and interesting than Tysons Corner), etc etc.

~17 million SF of mostly class A high-rise office in buildings that routinely exceed 400 ft, which along with residential high rises in frequency ranging from 10-50 floors produces a skyline that exceeds most core CBDs in this country.

Thousands of hotel rooms (including Westin, the original Ritz Carlton, Mandarin Oriental, St. Regis, Embassy Suites, flagship Intercontinental seeing as how IHG North America is based in Atlanta, JW Marriott attached to Lenox, etc etc).

And nearly every department store and major label of mid-range to uber luxe represented in quite a confined area that isn't much larger than the Back Bay, an urban and walkable district in Boston.

Lenox Square has 1.6 million SF itself, and is anchored by a 274,000 SF Bloomingdale's (large, almost as large as SF's, which is 2nd largest), 433,000 SF Macy's (one of the largest Macy's), and 205,000 SF Neiman Marcus, which is very large for Neiman's.

*Across the street* is Phipps (821,000 SF), anchored by Saks, Nordstrom, and Belk flagship, along with an AMC theater, includes mostly high end stores such as Bottega Veneta, Valentino, Trina Turk, Jimmy Choo, etc etc. Lenox has a lot of high end stores, as well, but also contains traditional higher end mall stores such as Lacoste, Kenneth Cole, Urban Outfitters, Pottery Barn, etc etc.

Shops Around Lenox is adjacent to Lenox Square, and is 125,000 SF anchored by Crate & Barrel and includes well known boutiques. It just sold for $600/sf and is essentially a fancy strip center, so it has fetched a high price point for sunbelt suburban shopping, indicative of rents, credits, and submarket pricing assumptions (lower cap rate, etc).

So on what is equivalent to probably 15 city blocks (small for a sunbelt area) you have over 2.5 million SF of very high end shopping. That is more square footage than King of Prussia Mall(s).

A mile away you have this development being mentioned, with the 28 stores mentioned out of 80, for an additional 320,000 SF. That's almost 2.9 million SF of mostly high end shopping between 2 malls, an outdoor master-planned mixed-use development, and a high end strip, within 1-2 square miles.

In between you easily have another 1,000,000 SF of shopping (ULTA, Whole Foods, North Face, Orvis, Container Store, etc etc). Restoration Hardware is constructing a 6 story flagship.

In a nutshell, Buckhead is leagues ahead of most, if not all other "fringe suburban" shopping areas. But I still wouldn't put it ahead of the urban world-class shopping districts of this country.
Thank you for reading my initial post and responding accordingly. Reading is fundamental.

Let me thank you two times because I think you're one of like 10 posters out of this entire thread that understood the topic from the beginning.
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:33 PM
 
7,132 posts, read 9,070,822 times
Reputation: 6333
Buckhead Atlanta will look more like a shopping district than a shopping center...



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Old 05-08-2014, 11:24 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
20,500 posts, read 33,299,328 times
Reputation: 12099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343 View Post
At this point I would say it's probably:

NYC
Chicago
San Francisco
Chicago
Boston
Philadelphia
Seattle
Washington DC
Miami

The rest are all shopping centers and shopping malls, not a shopping district.
Dallas?
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:25 PM
 
14,256 posts, read 26,789,930 times
Reputation: 4560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343 View Post
Edit: I know what happened. I went to type LA but typed Chicago twice. You're shopping is good Chitown but not that good

Sorry completely forgot LA! I went to type it and idk what happened after that! Just drew a blank I guess! Haha. Updated list:

NYC
Los Angeles
San Francisco
Chicago
Boston
Philadelphia
Seattle
Washington DC
Miami
I'd probably put Atlanta 10th with these new developments
Miami's pretty low.
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:33 PM
 
409 posts, read 583,071 times
Reputation: 260
The cities with upscale urban shopping are as follows, in order-

NYC

LA
SF
Chicago

Boston
Miami
Philadelphia
DC
Seattle
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