U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S. > City vs. City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Will Houston surpass Chicago as the 3rd largest city by 2020?
Yes 473 41.35%
No 671 58.65%
Voters: 1144. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-09-2010, 08:38 PM
 
324 posts, read 553,879 times
Reputation: 92

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dncr View Post
This is City-Data. We selectively choose the "facts" we present and deny the counterargument to the tooth and nail.
Biased facts I guess ... Anything to make the other region look bad to the eyes others...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-09-2010, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Tower of Heaven
4,023 posts, read 6,263,728 times
Reputation: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blkspice23 View Post
Biased facts I guess ... Anything to make the other region look bad to the eyes others...
Hé ! I don't hate Chicago, why I would hate it ?I'm french and I never visited Chicago or Houston....Please ne dites pas n'importe quoi
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-09-2010, 09:06 PM
 
Location: ITL (Houston)
9,223 posts, read 13,444,371 times
Reputation: 3545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dncr View Post
The domestic migration topic was answered by a previous poster. I don't remember who it was exactly, but they said something along the lines of immigrants come into the country through gateways. Two huge ones being New York and Los Angeles. These cities have been huge losers for domestic migration for years. Cities like Chicago and Philadelphia would also qualify in these categories.
But, it appears those immigrants then leave those cities for others like Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, etc.

Quote:
Research annexation.

Quote:
The majority of jobs aren't downtown. Most employment opportunities are based in the suburbs, although this is beginning to change in some cities across the country.
That's what I said.

Quote:
If Houston continues to be magnet for people across the country, it will drive up the prices. There's a reason certain cities are more expensive than others. Demand. Houston cant continue to develop quite suburban communities 50+ miles away from its core. At some point, the city will have to build up. There's no other alternative.
There is a reason certain cities are more expensive than others? Well, obviously. For Houston, it'll be awhile before it becomes expensive to even Chicago's level. The only suburban part of Houston's metro that is even 50 miles away from Downtown is the SE side along I-45, and that is only because its on the way to Galveston. It'll be awhile before 50+ miles is the standard.

And, for the record, Houston has been building up for awhile now, in addition to the fast growing suburbs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-09-2010, 09:10 PM
 
Location: ITL (Houston)
9,223 posts, read 13,444,371 times
Reputation: 3545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blkspice23 View Post
No that's not going to happen.. Anyway why is it a big deal to people if they loose domestically.. And gain internationally.. How can I city be declining if there still gaining residents from another country.. NYC has been loosing domestically for years but those that leave get replaced by people from other countries.... I don't even get this people throwing this up about Chicago but never throw that up about LA or NYC is there some kinda exception
It becomes a problem when a city starts losing more people domestically than are being replaced internationally. It got so bad in LA for a couple years during this decade, that the entire metro area actually lost population.

Metropolitan Statistical Area (CBSA) Population and Components of Change
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-09-2010, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Chicago
721 posts, read 1,520,856 times
Reputation: 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarface713 View Post
But, it appears those immigrants then leave those cities for others like Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, etc.
Again, that's been established. However, they're also coming in droves to cities like New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarface713 View Post
Research annexation.
Nice one . But really, I didn't know all of Houston's 600 square miles were strip malls along major avenues.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarface713 View Post
That's what I said.
I know, I was just restating for clarification. Not to mention you butchered the English language by saying: "Not all jobs are in downtown."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarface713 View Post
There is a reason certain cities are more expensive than others? Well, obviously.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarface713 View Post
For Houston, it'll be awhile before it becomes expensive to even Chicago's level. The only suburban part of Houston's metro that is even 50 miles away from Downtown is the SE side along I-45, and that is only because its on the way to Galveston. It'll be awhile before 50+ miles is the standard.
Not at the growth rates you're projecting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarface713 View Post
And, for the record, Houston has been building up for awhile now, in addition to the fast growing suburbs.
In its inner loop, which is at 5,000 people per square mile?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-09-2010, 09:31 PM
 
1,666 posts, read 2,344,101 times
Reputation: 486
Quote:
Originally Posted by RenaudFR View Post
Hé ! I don't hate Chicago, why I would hate it ?I'm french and I never visited Chicago or Houston....Please ne dites pas n'importe quoi
why are u telling me that???


And I need to answer what u wrote in French

Rien dire sur ce
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-09-2010, 09:38 PM
 
1,666 posts, read 2,344,101 times
Reputation: 486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarface713 View Post
It becomes a problem when a city starts losing more people domestically than are being replaced internationally. It got so bad in LA for a couple years during this decade, that the entire metro area actually lost population.

Metropolitan Statistical Area (CBSA) Population and Components of Change
But LA and NY still are leading and so is Chicago.. The Annex of land really helps Houston... If Houston was the same size as CHicago city limit wise I don't think we would be having this discussion.. I think it's more impressive that Chicago can have that many people in a smaller area.. Loose people and still stay ahead..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-09-2010, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Tower of Heaven
4,023 posts, read 6,263,728 times
Reputation: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeandIke27 View Post
But LA and NY still are leading and so is Chicago.. The Annex of land really helps Houston... If Houston was the same size as CHicago city limit wise I don't think we would be having this discussion.. I think it's more impressive that Chicago can have that many people in a smaller area.. Loose people and still stay ahead..
Alaska is the biggest US State, but it's not the fastest-growing ^^
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-09-2010, 09:53 PM
 
Location: ITL (Houston)
9,223 posts, read 13,444,371 times
Reputation: 3545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dncr View Post
Again, that's been established. However, they're also coming in droves to cities like New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, etc.
Chicago and Houston's international migration numbers are almost the same now. NYC and LA are way ahead, though.

Quote:
Nice one . But really, I didn't know all of Houston's 600 square miles were strip malls along major avenues.
I was saying that's the way Houston annexes now (though it hasn't annexed anything in a while). Instead of annexing the conservative neighborhoods and making the city have a more conservative city council, it annexes the shopping centers/malls/business districts for tax revenue. If you think cities like NYC, LA, Chicago, and San Francisco don't wish they had annexing powers like that, then you're kidding yourself. If a city can basically get a bunch of tax revenue, and only have to provide limited city services, that's a big plus.

One example I can give was when Katy Mills Mall was being built. Houston wanted to annex the land after the mall was built for tax revenue (and skip all of the neighborhoods), but the City of Katy and the Mills Corporation fought it, and Houston released its ETJ to the City of Katy, which annexed the land around Katy Mills.

But, Houston is started to release its far reaching ETJ to its suburbs, so they can form their own small cities (The Woodlands is the most recent example).

Quote:
I know, I was just restating for clarification. Not to mention you butchered the English language by saying: "Not all jobs are in downtown."
Grammar police. Your previous post had mistakes, but you don't see me trying to point them out to you.

Quote:
Not at the growth rates you're projecting!
Yeah, even at the current growth rates...

Quote:
In its inner loop, which is at 5,000 people per square mile?
A little more. That's the real Houston anyway. The Inner Loop is around 100 square miles and has about 600K residents and growing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeandIke27 View Post
But LA and NY still are leading and so is Chicago.. The Annex of land really helps Houston... If Houston was the same size as CHicago city limit wise I don't think we would be having this discussion.. I think it's more impressive that Chicago can have that many people in a smaller area.. Loose people and still stay ahead..
That's because Chicago was built pre-WWII. Chicago is a much older city, even though it was established around the same time Houston was. Chicago already had a sizable population when it was incorporated, while there was nothing in Houston.

And we wouldn't be having this discussion if Houston was the same size as Chicago, city limit wise, but it isn't.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2010, 06:16 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
10,171 posts, read 12,179,036 times
Reputation: 4047
This is quite interesting actually;


If you look at this some of the first things you'll notice would probably be Atlanta and Washington DC are literally NECK to NECK here. That turn out is going to be very interesting since they're both growing.

The next thing is, I think Houston Metropolitan area has a lot of work to do to catch up to DFW right now, if you look at the population from 2000 the gap wasn't as wide between the two as it is now, which means somewhere in the mid 2000's DFW grew at a far faster pace than Houston. Their growth towards the end of the decade was similar.

Next, Chicago's growth has been quite small, and if this pace were to continue then 40 years would be ideal for a Houston take over. Then again, in 40 years a lot can change as well, and I am positive by then the growth rate for Houston will have definitely slowed down by quite a lot.
I think it'll take a minimum of 65 years of moderate growth to play catch up with Chicago's metropolitan population, and that's if Houston stays healthy.
I have a gut feeling that growth in the Midwestern cities will be back on the rise near 2035 or so, especially given the water conditions across the world, the Midwest should be back on it's feet in growth sooner than later. Which can cause some disturbance for Houston's growth.

However, I will say this much, Houston's city population will definitely pass Chicago's on by, that is not a question, that is a fact. Even if the economy takes a huge decline in certain sectors, it has begun branching out to different sectors to sustain itself to avoid any economic collapse such as the ones Cleveland, Detroit, and Pittsburgh went through, Houston can say it has definitely learned well from it's peers, and 1986 (The most dreaded year in Houston History) has taught the city to look sharp and diversify.
The city just like Pittsburgh is fortunate to have another chance in a great come back.

Kidphilly is right, more people = more expensive.
Luckily density isn't Houston's forte, and you'll come to thank Houston's growth pattern one day. 601 square miles currently would mean 3,828 people per square mile in Houston. Compared to Chicago's 234 square miles and 12,649 people per square mile. Given that, more land accessible to the city and it's people = less expensive then less land available to the city and it's people.

I think as far as development goes, Houston will follow in Los Angeles's foot steps more so than Chicago's. Los Angeles has managed to sustain more affordability than it's peer San Francisco despite both going through tremendous growth. Not saying LA isn't expensive but simply saying it's managed to keep itself more affordable than dense areas like Boston, San Francisco, Washington DC, etc...

So landscape development- Houston will follow in LA's footsteps.
Economical development- Houston will follow in Chicago's footsteps.

Now as for the population it's basic math. No matter how you look at it, the city population will pass Chicago on by, and once again the benefactor is the 601.7 square miles of city land available, that will ensure it will grow larger. I know most would consider that a "cheat" and "unfair for growth" for a city to have that kind of land size, but if this were a comparison between Jacksonville and Chicago no one would say that, because Chicago is still out doing Jacksonville. When it comes to giving props to a city for it's growth many of you are stunned and will try to counter it with some of the most irrelevant to growth- information, in Texas, city land size doesn't matter like the way it does in the Midwest, and Northeast.

To address the sprawl problem Houston has proposed extending it's light rail service with another 4 lines, to it's current 1 line that exists. They have also proposed commuter rail service, both developments are to start soon. They're trying methods to attract more people into the inner city, downtown itself is going through some MASSIVE changes at revitalization, new grocery stores, new housing units, new shopping centers, new bars and restaurants, all this to keep downtown in a period of improvements.

Chron.commons | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

Directory - CITYCENTRE (http://www.citycentrehouston.com/directory.php - broken link)
^ You'll see some massive changes coming into City Centre, which was just recently built by the way.

The Houston Pavilion shopping center in downtown is being constructed as we speak;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/dd/Houstonpavilion.jpg/650px-Houstonpavilion.jpg (broken link)

The Brand New Houston Dynamo's stadium for the MLS Houston Dynamo's is being constructed now as well



New condos/lofts/apartments being built in downtown and uptown and even Texas Medical Center- not going to post pictures too many buildings lol.

Not to mention that since the year 2000 Houston has created brand new arenas/fields/parks for all of it's professional sports teams. Toyota Center replaced the old Compaq center in 2004, Minute Maid Park was completed in 2000, and Reliant Stadium was completed in 2002, and they kept the former Astrodome as well, because of it's significance as structure and as a back up, which came in handy during Hurricane Katrina for New Orleans evacuee's.
I'm lovin the changes!
Not to mention all the projects for renovation and creation of parks all across the city! City parks are looking really nice right now, and the Houston Zoo has cleaned up it's act too, and is getting more advertisement and attractions.

Basically what I'm trying to say is, Houston's attempting to change itself to satisfy the growing population it's receiving. In 10 years the city won't look the same anymore in certain areas.

The only thing I dislike about Houston is the lack of an NHL team... I mean seriously?! Lol...

Also can't wait until the light rail goes from uptown to downtown, that will be a lot of fun using it, so far I've only been on the METRORail once before back in 2004 a few months after it opened. I kind of never needed it before, but if it's going to be in uptown, then I'll be using it more frequently.
And can't wait until the commuter rail projects come underway and of course the Rapid Transit Bullet Trains from Houston to the other TexaPlex cities like Dallas/Austin/San Antonio/Fort Worth.

Also I noticed that some people on this thread still think Houston is out annexing land, well if New York City could annex in Brooklyn, The Bronx, Queens and Staten Island and double it's population quadruple it's size, I think it's fair for Houston to do it too! Lol! Anyways, Houston's done annexing land, they're not going to be doing that anymore.

Anyways, I commend the posters on this thread, we've kept it a hell lot more civil here than the "Los Angeles > Chicago" thread, which has completely gone to the dogs...

Last edited by DANNYY; 05-10-2010 at 07:03 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S. > City vs. City
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top