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Old 12-17-2012, 09:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Min-Chi-Cbus View Post
And I'm not sure I agree that St. Louis has better urban project developments (although I'm not 100% sure what that means). If it means urban redevelopment in terms of scale, Minneapolis-St. Paul would be hands down better. If it's the TYPE of redevelopment, I would have no idea since I'm not too familiar with the intricacies of St. Louis development projects (just know the higher level statistics). If it's the change or progress being made then I can see St. Louis winning there, since it started as a much worse place prior to its urban renaissance.

For the record, I also don't agree with better food, sports (2 pro teams vs. 4), education (incl. K-12?) or urban parks (what's St. Louis' answer to the Chain of Lakes?), and frankly can't believe those answers!
sports: st. louis has 3 pro sports teams, not 2 (rams, blues, cards), and some of the most fiercely loyal fans in the country. cardinals alone make stl a top-tier sports city. it would be a tall order to argue that minneapolis has a better sports tradition than st. louis. stl is one of the premier historic sports cities of america, due in large part to the legendary cardinals organization, the second winningest baseball club after the yankees.

education: nothing in minneapolis comes close to washington university. it's one of the finest institutions of higher learning in the usa. mpls would probably win in city proper public education.

urban parks: forest park is a tough one to beat. site of 1904 world's fair, home to the zoo, science center, art museum, history museum, muny opera, countless recreational amenities, etc. in the heart of some of the most vibrant neighborhoods in the city.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
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This is interesting. While not really a realistic comparison of course.

First off, I prefer the twin cities over KC and StL for reasons that go beyond amenities, sports teams, museums etc and I would much rather live in StL than KC.

Honestly I think KC alone can actually compete with Minneapolis on many levels. Minneapolis without St Paul is probably pretty close to KCís size. I prefer MSP for more intangible characteristics. I canít stand the whole way metro KC is so segregated and spends more time fighting with each other than working together. The end result of such a county and state line civil war is an extremely fragmented metro that seriously lacks many of the quality of life features I like in a city such as transit, good parks, good bike trails, well funded culture (and resulting lower ticket prices), less subsidized sprawl, less blight and simply more regional pride no matter where you live. While I know there is some rivalry between city and suburbs, Minneapolis and St Paul etc, I have never seen the total disrespect and even hate that is out of control in metro KC. Even StL has a regional community spirit that KC canít touch even out in west county, st charles and metro east.

Having said thatÖ

KC is once again not getting the respect it deserves as a city because most people donít know a thing about the other issues I just talked about and so they wouldn't have that counting against KC.

KC as a city absolutely can compete with both Minneapolis and St Louis on many levels of culture, arts, sports, museums, food etc. Again, KC mainly drops the ball on transit, recreation, regional cooperation and urban planning.

My thoughts:


Most Urban: St Louis. Minneapolis might have more widespread density stats, but StL just has the feel of a bigger city with broad shoulders and a deep urban history.

Best Architecture: Four way tie. Love the brick in StL, the art deco in KC, the historic cathedrals in St Paul and the modern towers in Minneapolis.

Most Pedestrian Friendly: Minneapolis (but of course the other three cities all have vibrant ped friendly areas)

Most Urban project developments : I would say in the past ten years, KC and Minneapolis.

Best Transit (rail and bus-ridership, routes etc): Minneapolis St Paul by a long shot, then itís a tie between KC and StL (KC has much better bus system, StL has LRT).

Best Airport (out of the 3 cities): Right now MSP. KC and StL have about the same service although for connecting, I avoid KCI like the plague.

Economy: Minneapolis is pretty far ahead here, then KC and followed by StL.

Nightlife: I think this would go to Minneapolis due to the University of Minnesota being so close to downtown and the larger downtown population. KC and StL are a tie.

Most Culturally Diverse: Minneapolis

Education: St.Louis closely followed by Minneapolis with KC off in the distance lacking urban schools in comparison. KC piggybacks off KU way too much and needs its own urban university (something a notch above UMKC).

Best Urban Parks: St.Louis followed by Minneapolis and St Paul. Most of KCís ďurbanĒ parks is unused grass.

Food: not a food snob, but love Italian, so St Louis, but KCís BBQ variety makes is a tie. Not sure about MSP

Music: Donít know, seems like MSP, KC and StL get all the same concerts etc to me.

Best Sports: St.Louis for MLB crazed fans (top MLB city in country IMO), MSP and KC for huge MLB fan base that wishes they had better teams, MSP and KC for NFL. MSP and StL for urban college sports, MSP and StL for NHL and KC for MLS nascar and state college sports. So tie. Depends on what you are into.

Museums/Arts: this is where I actually think KC wins and can hang with the big boys.

Last edited by kcmo; 12-17-2012 at 10:16 PM..
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slengel View Post
education: nothing in minneapolis comes close to washington university. it's one of the finest institutions of higher learning in the usa.
Macalester and Carleton certainly at least come close.


My thoughts (having lived both in MSP and halfway between MSP and Kansas City)...

Most Urban: St. Louis, but MSP is gaining on it fast.

Best Architecture: I love aspects of all four. Minneapolis has easily the best skyline.

Most Pedestrian Friendly: Minneapolis

Most Urban project developments: Not sure.

Best Transit (rail and bus-ridership, routes etc): MSP > St. Louis > KC

Best Airport (out of the 3 cities): MSP

Economy: MSP

Nightlife: St. Louis and Minneapolis

Most Culturally Diverse: MSP > St. Louis > KC

Education: St. Louis = MSP > KC

Best Urban Park: St. Louis might have better individual parks, but I'd say that Minneapolis has the strongest parks system.

Food: For local cuisine, Missouri; for fine dining and farmers' markets, MSP.

Music: Minneapolis > St. Louis > Kansas City > St. Paul

Best Sports: Honestly no idea.

Museums/Arts: Minneapolis by really a lot

Last edited by steel03; 12-17-2012 at 10:39 PM..
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:13 AM
 
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Minneapolis easily wins in terms of contemporary urban architecture, and St. Louis sweeps in terms of historic urban architecture.

There is no way that Minneapolis wins "by really a lot" in museum/arts. All three metros (Minneapolis/St. Paul, St. Louis and KC) are all strong in this dept. in different aspects. This category is simply too diverse to call a clear winner. That said, the City Museum in St. Louis is far and away the most unique, eccentric and exhilarating of them all, and it defies any conventional description.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis (St. Louis Park)
5,991 posts, read 8,313,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slengel View Post
sports: st. louis has 3 pro sports teams, not 2 (rams, blues, cards), and some of the most fiercely loyal fans in the country. cardinals alone make stl a top-tier sports city. it would be a tall order to argue that minneapolis has a better sports tradition than st. louis. stl is one of the premier historic sports cities of america, due in large part to the legendary cardinals organization, the second winningest baseball club after the yankees.

education: nothing in minneapolis comes close to washington university. it's one of the finest institutions of higher learning in the usa. mpls would probably win in city proper public education.

urban parks: forest park is a tough one to beat. site of 1904 world's fair, home to the zoo, science center, art museum, history museum, muny opera, countless recreational amenities, etc. in the heart of some of the most vibrant neighborhoods in the city.
I think you forget I've lived in both cities and know all of these amenities...
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis (St. Louis Park)
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"Education" on this thread MUST mean higher education, because people keep saying STL and referencing Washington University. Education on an every-person scale should be hands-down the Twin Cities, which is among the best in the country and spends a ton of money to be such. STL and KC have attrotious public schools and I can't really believe they would be voted higher if that was part of the consideration. So as far as higher ed goes, I'll give the nod to U of W over anything in the Twin Cities individually, but again, Minneapolis and St. Paul have 10-12 universities between them and I kind of doubt St. Louis has nearly as many students (but I could be wrong).
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Min-Chi-Cbus View Post
I think you forget I've lived in both cities and know all of these amenities...
Then you should know that St. Louis has three major league sports teams, not two.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis (St. Louis Park)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STLgasm View Post
Then you should know that St. Louis has three major league sports teams, not two.
When I lived there there were only two
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,842 posts, read 19,416,924 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Min-Chi-Cbus View Post
"Education" on this thread MUST mean higher education, because people keep saying STL and referencing Washington University. Education on an every-person scale should be hands-down the Twin Cities, which is among the best in the country and spends a ton of money to be such. STL and KC have attrotious public schools and I can't really believe they would be voted higher if that was part of the consideration. So as far as higher ed goes, I'll give the nod to U of W over anything in the Twin Cities individually, but again, Minneapolis and St. Paul have 10-12 universities between them and I kind of doubt St. Louis has nearly as many students (but I could be wrong).
I don't know much about central city Minneapolis and St Paul public schools, but aren't most central city urban districts terrible? It's also difficult to judge a metro area's public schools by one district. The KCMO school district is small and there are many good districts within the city of KCMO (although suburban areas) and most of the suburbs have good schools.

Having said that, I do agree that overall MSP is the winner on education.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:03 AM
 
976 posts, read 1,878,702 times
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definitely disagree about mpls being the clear winner in arts/museums, but that is subjective. and while the twin cities may have the highest overall transit ridership, it is noteworthy that st. louis's metrolink rail system enjoys much higher ridership than that of minneapolis. st. louis is also experiencing the highest bus ridership increases in the nation, while minneapolis ridership is dropping:

https://www.stlbeacon.org/#!/content...ship_up_121612
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