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Old 12-18-2012, 09:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Min-Chi-Cbus View Post
When I lived there there were only two
an awful lot has changed since st. louis had only two teams. for one, the city museum, which is arguably one of the most fascinating museums in the world, did not exist then.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STLgasm View Post
Then you should know that St. Louis has three major league sports teams, not two.
I think it's safe to assume that it will be down to just the Cards and Blues before long.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis
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If the category were Museums, then Minneapolis would perhaps not be as clear a winner as it is, and St. Louis would maybe win with the City Museum alone, but the category is Museums/Arts. KC and STL do so well, but MSP is just a step up.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steel03 View Post
If the category were Museums, then Minneapolis would perhaps not be as clear a winner as it is, and St. Louis would maybe win with the City Museum alone, but the category is Museums/Arts. KC and STL do so well, but MSP is just a step up.
The St. Louis Symphony Orchestra easily blows the Minneapolis Symphony out of the water (does Minneapolis even have a symphony?). I'm not saying that Minneapolis isn't very strong in the arts because it most certainly is, but St. Louis can definitely hold its own. Not sure if botanical gardens qualify as "arts/museums" but the Missouri Botanical Garden is acclaimed as one of the top 5 in the world, and our zoo crushes the Minneapolis Zoo like an elephant stomping on a cockroach!
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis
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I like both STL and KC. Each year I take in both cities on a baseball road trip, so I do spend a fair amount of time in each. In reasonable terms MSP and STL are peer cities. I do think that Minneapolis is at the top end of that peer group with Seattle and Denver, while St Louis is more in line with Cleveland or Pittsburgh. All of these cities are major national cities, and regional anchors.

Kansas City is also a great place, but it doesn't really belong in the same discussion. KC is more a peer to Milwaukee, Austin, or Portland. This is, of course, about a lot more than simple population statistics. However, putting it into perspective by looking just at metro population, Kansas City is closer to El Paso or Baton Rouge than it is to Minneapolis.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
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Originally Posted by rogead View Post
However, putting it into perspective by looking just at metro population, Kansas City is closer to El Paso or Baton Rouge than it is to Minneapolis.
I was with you till you said that. HUH? KC has over 2 million people (2.1 in MSA and 2.6 within sixty miles of downtown, Lawrence etc). It's a large, relatively populated region with an urbanized population of like 1.6 million and is a top 30 city. The population of the Kansas side suburbs alone rivals that of the entire metro areas of Baton Rouge or El Paso and I don't think they are even comparable when it comes to culture, sports, museums, arts etc.

KC is similar to Portland OR in size and much closer to St Louis than Baton Rouge. As I mentioned before, you take away St Paul and KC and easily hangs with Minneapolis as well. So not sure I get your post. I think you may need to see more of KC than the drive in from I-35 through Liberty (which is not a very impressvie entryway to the metro)
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogead View Post
I like both STL and KC. Each year I take in both cities on a baseball road trip, so I do spend a fair amount of time in each. In reasonable terms MSP and STL are peer cities. I do think that Minneapolis is at the top end of that peer group with Seattle and Denver, while St Louis is more in line with Cleveland or Pittsburgh. All of these cities are major national cities, and regional anchors.

Kansas City is also a great place, but it doesn't really belong in the same discussion. KC is more a peer to Milwaukee, Austin, or Portland. This is, of course, about a lot more than simple population statistics. However, putting it into perspective by looking just at metro population, Kansas City is closer to El Paso or Baton Rouge than it is to Minneapolis.
KC metro is 2 million. Quite a bit smaller than Minneapolis and StL, but more than twice the size of Baton Rouge or El Paso (US-only). KC is actually closer to Pittsburgh and Cleveland in terms of population, than StL or Minneapolis. Culturally, its like a small hybrid of StL and Minneapolis, and has very little in common with Austin or Portland. In terms of urban lifestyle and ammenities I would argue that it is closer to StL than StL is to Minneapolis, but opinions like that are pretty infinitely debatable. It certainly measures up well to or better than (in some cases) St Louis in terms of Arts/Food/Museums/Cultural ammenities, it is comparable in terms of density, demographics, and culture, but it is less walkable, less traditionally urban and less transit friendly. It doesn't really seem close to MPLS in most of the things we are talking about, and frankly St Louis seems more like KC in all of the important areas except transit infrastructure than it does MPLS.

Also, as an aside: the city Museum - while almost indescribably awesome - is not, in point of fact, a "museum". Its a playground.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s.davis View Post
Also, as an aside: the city Museum - while almost indescribably awesome - is not, in point of fact, a "museum". Its a playground.
Yea, love the city museum, amazing place and I think it adds to the quality of life of the metro. But I'm not sure it even belongs in the museum category. I would however include it as an important asset when comparing cities though.

KC's Nelson, Kemper, Kauffman Center for Performing Arts, Crossroads Arts District, KC Art Institute, WWI Museum, Steamboat Arabia, Negro Leagues Museum, Jazz Museum, etc are all worthy of any big city in the country. KC may not exceed to MSP or StL , but it hangs with them when it comes to arts and cultural attractions.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by STLgasm View Post
The St. Louis Symphony Orchestra easily blows the Minneapolis Symphony out of the water (does Minneapolis even have a symphony?).
According to who?

There are the Big Five orchestras, including the New York Philharmonic, Boston Symphony Orchestra, Chicago Symphony Orchestra, Philadelphia Orchestra, Cleveland Orchestra. An updated "best" list includes, the Los Angeles Philharmonic, the San Francisco Symphony, the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra, the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra, the Houston Symphony, the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra, the National Symphony Orchestra, the Minnesota Orchestra (originally the Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra), and the Saint Louis Symphony Orchestra.

BTW, the Minnesota Orchestra has an endowment of $140 million - the Saint Louis Symphony Orchestra's endowment is $22 million.

Last edited by YIMBY; 12-18-2012 at 12:14 PM..
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Carver County, MN
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I wouldn't exactly call St. Louis a "booming urban area". Granted it is seeing an urban renewal of sorts, but the metro area is staying pretty stagnant.
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