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NYC is sooooooooo much bigger than every other metro that it has more of almost everything. More Jamaican immigrants, more millionaires, more students, more welfare recipients, more bankers, more independently wealthy trust fund brats, more AIDS cases, more voluntarily impoverished Orthodox Jews, more gays, etc. The wealth in NYC is so massive on an absolute scale that it has a tremendous impact on the COL for everyone else. There are more people in the NYC Metro area with a college degree than there are people in the entire Delaware Valley.
Predictable because it's correct. Of course NY has more of everything-it's the largest city and metro in the country. That is why we look at percentages in order to compare. You can't get around the facts, no distortion to percentages, especially when we're looking at the most populated Metros and Cities.
New York has more Jews than Tel Aviv and more Irish than Dublin, but the percentages tell us a much more accurate picture.
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
I've always thought that stat was rather dubious and cherrypicked.
Of course it is cherrypicked-It only includes Center City. Which you and I both know is in a league of it's own in the Philly area.
But at the end of the day Center City has the third largest downtown population in the country and that population has the highest rate of advanced degrees of any downtown in the country. Take it for what it's worth.
The NEW EYA townhomes HERE in Cap Riverfront are selling for less than 700k, I am pretty sure. I doubt many couples with combined incomes of 600k buying those. Ditto for Brookland (except maybe the few REALLY big houses) Trinidad, Kingman Park, 16th Street Heights, or Takoma.
As far as I can tell you aren't going to find that many houses listing for north of 650k in any of those neighborhoods.
I really doubt couples with joint incomes of 600k are spending a lot of time at open houses for units that sell for barely more than their combined income - there are certainly frugal folks around, but not many THAT frugal.
Arlington runs higher but thats for SFHs in an excellent school district.
In Old Town Alex you can find properties for north of one million sure - but you can still find some THs for less than 650k. A few other parts of Alex are close to that (like Del Ray) but several are far cheaper.
DC has a pretty good share of Ivy Grads who are NOT making a lot of money - civil servants, hill staffers, NGO/nonprofit employees, etc, etc. NYC which has more aspiring writers and actors and artists may match it (though DC also has some struggling would be writer/journalist types, I guess)
DC has a pretty good share of Ivy Grads who are NOT making a lot of money - civil servants, hill staffers, NGO/nonprofit employees, etc, etc. NYC which has more aspiring writers and actors and artists may match it (though DC also has some struggling would be writer/journalist types, I guess)
Exactly. I also generally just challenge BajanYankee's implication that the "best and brightest" are only found in a couple select cities (eg, DC and NY). There are concentrations of innovative and brilliant minds in cities/companies across this country. Look at the Inc 500 fastest-growing companies list -- very widely dispersed across the country:
These companies could not be so successful without the best and the brightest in their fields.
I will concede that DC stands out as having a disproportionate amount of this cohort (and NY, of course, stands out based only on sheer scale), but as many have been saying, this is institutionalized by its de facto government sector and not nearly as organic as other cities.
Also, due to its political nature, there is an inherently conservative undercurrent here of not shaking up the status quo too much that can be stifling to creative thought -- the extent to which you do not find in any other US city.
The NEW EYA townhomes HERE in Cap Riverfront are selling for less than 700k, I am pretty sure. I doubt many couples with combined incomes of 600k buying those. Ditto for Brookland (except maybe the few REALLY big houses) Trinidad, Kingman Park, 16th Street Heights, or Takoma.
As far as I can tell you aren't going to find that many houses listing for north of 650k in any of those neighborhoods.
I really doubt couples with joint incomes of 600k are spending a lot of time at open houses for units that sell for barely more than their combined income - there are certainly frugal folks around, but not many THAT frugal.
Arlington runs higher but thats for SFHs in an excellent school district.
In Old Town Alex you can find properties for north of one million sure - but you can still find some THs for less than 650k. A few other parts of Alex are close to that (like Del Ray) but several are far cheaper.
That wasn't the point I was making. No, houses don't sell for $600K in every single DC neighborhood. But a house in a crappy murder trap such as Kingman Park will cost substantially more than a house in a neighborhood like Strawberry Mansion. And a house in Bloomingdale will cost substantially more than a house in Cedar Park. This is an indisputable fact. And the notion that this has little to do with greater wealth is ridiculous to me.
Someone moving from Philly to DC will notice an appreciable difference in what they can afford because the earning scale and overall wealth is so much higher there. Just like someone moving from DC to NYC (which I did) will notice an appreciable difference in what they can afford because the earning scale and overall wealth is so much higher here.
DC has a pretty good share of Ivy Grads who are NOT making a lot of money - civil servants, hill staffers, NGO/nonprofit employees, etc, etc. NYC which has more aspiring writers and actors and artists may match it (though DC also has some struggling would be writer/journalist types, I guess)
When did I say that all Ivy League grads make a lot of money? I mean, why the need to go to extremes and point out every single exception to make a point. That's simply being argumentative,
Exactly. I also generally just challenge BajanYankee's implication that the "best and brightest" are only found in a couple select cities (eg, DC and NY).
Again, why the need to mischaracterize my statement? Here's what I said.
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
DC and NYC are not only getting a large share of the best educated workers but it's also getting a larger number of educated workers in general. There are more people in these cities who went to "decent" schools as well.
Where in that statement does it say that the "best and brightest are only found in a couple select cities?" Stop making sh*t up.
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
There are concentrations of innovative and brilliant minds in cities/companies across this country. Look at the Inc 500 fastest-growing companies list -- very widely dispersed across the country
Did I say these people didn't exist in other cities? Yes, they exist in Pittsburgh, but not to the same extent they do in the SF Bay Area. What's so hard to understand about that? It's just like comparing the talent in the MLS to the talent in the English Premier League. That doesn't mean there are no good players in MLS. It just means that the Premiere League has more quality talent and that talent extends deeper into its rosters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
I will concede that DC stands out as having a disproportionate amount of this cohort (and NY, of course, stands out based only on sheer scale), but as many have been saying, this is institutionalized by its de facto government sector and not nearly as organic as other cities.
That is completely irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
Also, due to its political nature, there is an inherently conservative undercurrent here of not shaking up the status quo too much that can be stifling to creative thought -- the extent to which you do not find in any other US city.
Again, this is irrelevant. If you want to start a thread about how DC being a stuffy, white-collar town with few "think outside the box" types, then I'm all for it. But this thread is about COL. And things like educational attainment and where you went to school has a strong correlation with income and income impacts COL.
Again, why the need to mischaracterize my statement? Here's what I said.
Where in that statement does it say that the "best and brightest are only found in a couple select cities?" Stop making sh*t up.
I honestly wasn't trying to mischaracterize anything. That's really just what I got out of what you said. I understand your argument, so I won't belabor the point any further.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
Someone moving from Philly to DC will notice an appreciable difference in what they can afford because the earning scale and overall wealth is so much higher there
Earnings are higher, but buying power is not. I know you do not think that is super relevant here, but it is misleading to say without that caveat. Having more money to afford higher prices for the exact same thing does not make one wealthier.
That wasn't the point I was making. No, houses don't sell for $600K in every single DC neighborhood. But a house in a crappy murder trap such as Kingman Park will cost substantially more than a house in a neighborhood like Strawberry Mansion. And a house in Bloomingdale will cost substantially more than a house in Cedar Park. This is an indisputable fact. And the notion that this has little to do with greater wealth is ridiculous to me.
Someone moving from Philly to DC will notice an appreciable difference in what they can afford because the earning scale and overall wealth is so much higher there. Just like someone moving from DC to NYC (which I did) will notice an appreciable difference in what they can afford because the earning scale and overall wealth is so much higher here.
Im not disputing that Philly is cheaper than DC, apples to apples (you will notice upthread I have my two cents on why)
I think the idea that DC open houses are crawling with folks with combined family incomes of 600k or higher is a very false picture of the DC real estate market though (I cannot speak to brooklyn open houses). I would doubt that folks like that are looking much at houses that are listed at less than one million. The edgier neighborhoods on your list have NO houses in that range - and all but the a handful of the other have a mix that includes many houses less than that. The few where prices like that are the norn really DO represent a handful of pockets. Maybe more pockets than you would find in Philly, but still pockets.
The DC marketplace is hot - but as far as I can tell its heat is being driven, even in the markets for houses (as opposed to condos) by people with family incomes between 150k and 500k, much more than by people with incomes north of 600k.
A couple with a combined income of say 300k (who could easily afford 600k for a TH, and less frugally could afford 750k) could have individual salaries of only 150k each.
When did I say that all Ivy League grads make a lot of money? I mean, why the need to go to extremes and point out every single exception to make a point. That's simply being argumentative,
Because the poorer Ivy league grads arent just rare exceptions that falsify "all" - they (and folks similar to them who went to other Univs) are an important part of the DC market, and are, I suspect, driving much of the change in the edgier neighborhoods. The implication that Ivy league grad =s 300k for higher salary is not only incorrect - its gives a misleading impression of life in DC.
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