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View Poll Results: What accounts for the COL disparity between Philly and DC?
Philly is less expensive because it has more supply 11 35.48%
DC is more expensive because it has stronger demand 20 64.52%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-19-2012, 09:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeShoreSoxGo View Post
People rent when it is a cheaper option than owning. The median household in DC brings in 61k a year. That is too little to afford a home at the median of 450k. Hence why people rent. Roughly 50% of the cities households would have to own in the ghetto, if they want to buy anything.
According to the United States Census Bureau on income (all weights):

http://www.city-data.com/forum/membe...p-image-50.bmp

http://www.city-data.com/forum/membe...p-image-51.bmp
Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeShoreSoxGo View Post
That is too little to afford a home at the median of 450k.
Median price to rent in the DMV area per month: 1 bedroom $1,320|2 bedroom $1,486 (Washington-Baltimore DC-MD-VA-WV CMSA Average Apartment Rental Rates)

Median home price in the DMV area (from the latest quarterly report): $367,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeShoreSoxGo View Post
Uh no, it is the other way around. Most people in Washington can't afford a home, just like Manhattan.
I don't know, if we apply the logic that Washingtonians are going to live in Washington for the longterm (with a family- since long term people do end up with children) then wouldn't it be more cost effective to own a home instead of paying rent over several years at a time?

People move to Washington with a liquidated state of mind, they don't know how long they're going to live there let alone how long they want to be in the same apartment- which gives them the hassle of not having to renew their contract when they feel "done" with the place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2e1m5a View Post
Government Industrial Complexes are not sustainable. When you have a metro with little economic output, like DC, it is not sustainable.
You mean economic outlook, right?

Because Washington's economic output (GDP) is only bested by New York, Los Angeles, & Chicago and practically tied with Houston's.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
31,974 posts, read 34,512,242 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeShoreSoxGo View Post
LoL.

Dude DC's median household incomes are lower than Manhattan and SF. Sorry but government is not as lucrative as Silicon Valley or Wallstreet. Keep dreaming.
Actually, DC's median income is higher than Manhattan's. Manhattan only had a median income of $47,030 in 2010. DC had a median income of $61,835. This shouldn't be too hard to believe considering that Manhattan has a lot of poverty and a ridiculously skewed income distribution. You're either paid in Manhattan or you're not. There are few exceptions.

And why do you assume that everybody in DC works for the government? Williams & Connolly, Arnold and Porter, Raytheon, Latham & Watkins, Covington & Burling, Booz Allen, Morgan Stanley, Boeing, and Lockheed Martin are not the government. But you do have a lot of people working in government who are not on the GS-Scale and get paid private sector salaries. This is usually the case with scientists and medical researchers who the government deems to be so valuable that they have to have compensation that's competitive with the private sector (or terrorist networks).
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valentro View Post
You mean economic outlook, right?

Because Washington's economic output (GDP) is only bested by New York, Los Angeles, & Chicago and practically tied with Houston's.
No, output. DC's GDP cannot be measured the same way as cities with organic economies because DC's GDP is a function of it's manufactured economy. Defense contractors sure are benefiting from the ever-long "War on Terror", but it is simply a collusion between Government and the Free Market, like so much of what goes on in DC.

Again, DC is an outlier and cannot be compared to cities with organic economies like Philly, Chicago, LA, SF, Houston, etc.

Last edited by 2e1m5a; 12-19-2012 at 10:06 AM..
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Cardboard box
1,909 posts, read 3,773,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Eh, no. Trust me, this is my life.

You can't simply make a bid you can't afford. Either you can afford it or you can't. Housing can be tight in a Mexican puebla, but that does not mean that the final bid will be $765K. It will be the high end of whatever that market can support, which I suppose would be $355.46 (sarcasm). When you go to open houses in DC or Brooklyn, the couples walking in are Stanford-educated doctors, lawyers and bankers with a joint income of $600K. Those people hardly even exist in Philadelphia. It's much more of a middle-class city.



Okay, but who's doing that? I mean, are you reading articles about this on DCMud, DCHousing Prices, Greater Greater Washington, Prince of Petworth, Lydia DePillis' housing complex? Or are you just assuming that this is the case?

I know people who make high bids in lofty burbs, can afford THOSE houses. But again, 50% of DC households can't even afford a home at the median price. Given the number of renters, it is quite clear the vast majority of DC can not afford to own a home, at all. There are only so many Steve Cases and only so many Vienna, Va's.

As for assuming, it is pretty simple. If a city has less than 40% home ownership, it is clear that it is an investor-dominated market.

First-time home buyers are out-muscled in today's housing market

Quote:
The competition can be most evident for lower-price homes in markets hard-hit by foreclosure, such as Phoenix, Miami and parts of Southern California, or those with relatively strong economies, such as Washington, D.C., and San Francisco, Realtors say.
U.S. Commercial Real Estate Recovery to Advance in 2013 with Nationwide Gains in Leasing, Rents & Pricing, According to PwC US and Urban Land Institute's Emerging Trends in Real Estate® Forecast

Quote:
Washington, D.C. (8) commercial real estate prices have risen since the recession, with investors regarding D.C. investments as “recession-proof;â€
And it is not just DC, it is starting to become a nation-wide problem
Press Release
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Cardboard box
1,909 posts, read 3,773,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2e1m5a View Post
No, output. DC's GDP cannot be measured the same way as cities with organic economies because DC's GDP is a function of it's manufactured economy. Defense contractors sure are benefiting from the ever-long "War on Terror", but it is simply a collusion between Government and the Free Market, like so much of what goes on in DC.

Again, DC is an outlier and cannot be compared to cities with organic economies like Philly, Chicago, LA, Houston, etc.
Yep, a large part of DC's GDP is tax-payer sponsored. Lot's of contracts being doled out.
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2e1m5a View Post
No, output. DC's GDP cannot be measured the same way as cities with organic economies because DC's GDP is a function of it's manufactured economy.
Organic? Whole Foods is organic not sure I would use the word to describe a city though, Washington is a city.

Anyhow, Washington's labor pool is 3,246,500 people & the Government accounts for 702,000 of the employed in Washington (large but not as dramatic as you've been making it out to be this whole thread).

Professional & Business Services (equally as large as the Government), Education & Health Services, Trade & Transportation Utilities, Leisure, Construction, Mining, Lodging make up a FAR larger bulk of the DMV economy than the government.

Don't believe me? As of November, 2012:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/membe...p-image-52.bmp

Oh yeahh and just throwing this out there but Washington is only bested by Bay Area, New York, Seattle, & Boston on Information Technology for both production (into a GDP) as well as concentration of both companies & employment. It's only bested by a few places on Life Sciences too. It's only bested by very (and I mean very few) places on startups & Venture Capital and those places are Bay Area, New York, Boston, Seattle, & Los Angeles (in order) and slightly ahead of Chicago, Denver, & Austin.

Just to reiterate this yet again, Washington has the 4th largest economic output in the United States of America. Whether you want to diligently argue this over my city with real facts instead of trying to say the Government is the ONLY thing here is up to you but the bulk of it's economy isn't the government. Does government have a large presence? Yes. To the extent you've been making it out to be? No.

Calling Washington a "little economic output" is absolutely going off the deep end when it's by FAR one of the largest and then using a word that best describes Whole Foods to diss Washington is even more outrageous in my opinion.

Last edited by Trafalgar Law; 12-19-2012 at 10:27 AM..
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Cardboard box
1,909 posts, read 3,773,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valentro View Post
Organic? Whole Foods is organic not sure I would use the word to describe a city though, Washington is a city.

Anyhow, Washington's labor pool is 3,246,500 people & the Government accounts for 702,000 of the employed in Washington (large but not as dramatic as you've been making it out to be this whole thread).

Professional & Business Services (equally as large as the Government), Education & Health Services, Trade & Transportation Utilities, Leisure, Construction, Mining, Lodging make up a FAR larger bulk of the DMV economy than the government.

Don't believe me? As of November, 2012:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/membe...p-image-52.bmp

Oh yeahh and just throwing this out there but Washington is only bested by Bay Area, New York, Seattle, & Boston on Information Technology for both production (into a GDP) as well as concentration of both companies & employment. It's only bested by a few places on Life Sciences too. It's only bested by very (and I mean very few) places on startups & Venture Capital and those places are Bay Area, New York, Boston, Seattle, & Los Angeles (in order) and slightly ahead of Chicago, Denver, & Austin.

Just to reiterate this yet again, Washington has the 4th largest economic output in the United States of America. Whether you want to diligently argue this over my city with real facts instead of trying to say the Government is the ONLY thing here is up to you but the bulk of it's economy isn't the government. Does government have a large presence? Yes. To the extent you've been making it out to be? No.

Calling Washington a "little economic output" is absolutely going off the deep end when it's by FAR one of the largest and then using a word that best describes Whole Foods to diss Washington is even more outrageous in my opinion.

The problem is you can not make a distinction between companies and employment that rely on government. Sure IT is good, if like Austin, NY, and SF bay it is most private companies. But DC? How many people in DC work for the government? And how many people work for private that are contracted (and thus financed) by the goverment? And how many people actually work in the private sector?
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
11,998 posts, read 12,884,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valentro View Post
Organic? Whole Foods is organic not sure I would use the word to describe a city though, Washington is a city.

Anyhow, Washington's labor pool is 3,246,500 people & the Government accounts for 702,000 of the employed in Washington (large but not as dramatic as you've been making it out to be this whole thread).

Professional & Business Services (equally as large as the Government), Education & Health Services, Trade & Transportation Utilities, Leisure, Construction, Mining, Lodging make up a FAR larger bulk of the DMV economy than the government.
Organic meaning it is representative of a true market. Things are actually produced because of demand.
Government expansion/waste, bureaucracies, lobbyist creating demand out of thin air and outsourcing to other corporations are not organic and are all pretty non-productive functions. Collusion between Government and the free market is not organic in any way.

Do the 700,000 Government jobs account for all the jobs that are funded by taxpayers through contracting and outsourcing?
I doubt it, DC is a pretty non-productive Metro as a whole.
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
31,974 posts, read 34,512,242 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeShoreSoxGo View Post
I know people who make high bids in lofty burbs, can afford THOSE houses. But again, 50% of DC households can't even afford a home at the median price. Given the number of renters, it is quite clear the vast majority of DC can not afford to own a home, at all. There are only so many Steve Cases and only so many Vienna, Va's.
What does this have to do with my point? I never said the vast majority of people in DC can afford a home (that was valentro).

I said that excess supply is not the reason why bids come in lower in Philadelphia than they do in DC. They come in lower in Philly because people make less money. I mean, I lived in Philadelphia for most of my life, so I'm trying to figure out where all of these jobs are that would enable people to afford half million dollar homes. When you find these great paying jobs, please let me know because I know a lot of people who could certainly use one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeShoreSoxGo View Post
As for assuming, it is pretty simple. If a city has less than 40% home ownership, it is clear that it is an investor-dominated market.
And this has what to do with your claim that prices are being bid up by investors in PG County looking to convert properties into Section 8 rentals?
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:38 AM
 
6,851 posts, read 10,916,773 times
Reputation: 8410
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I never said the vast majority of people in DC can afford a home (that was valentro).
I never said anything about the amount of people, just said that there are a lot of people who do rent that can easily afford purchasing a home. My assertion was to someone's point earlier that people in Washington cant afford to buy so that's why they rent.
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