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I think there's way more demand and high-earners in DC for the two markets to ever be comparable. If prices somehow went up to DC levels in Philadelphia overnight, there would hardly be any people there who would be able to afford it. Sotheby's has 137 listings in the District of Columbia and 16 in the city of Philadelphia (all suburbs excluded). And there's only one property on their site in Philly that's listed over $1 million. That's less of a function of a glut of properties in the Philly market and more of a function of high demand in the DC market. There are simply way more people in the DC market who can drop large paper.
Only one property on their site LISTED over $1 Million... that doesn't mean that there are no condos that expensive in Philadelphia... 10 Rittenhouse is a 33 story skyscraper in Philadelphia with 33 condos (one condo per floor). The bottom floor starts at $3 million. The building has NOT ONE vacancy. Cliff Lee lives in the Penthouse.
You really think there is only one $1 million condo in the city? HAHA. I find it hilarious that you exclude the suburbs... because if places like Chester County, the Main Line and Upper Bucks County got into the equation, your ridiculous argument would no longer be valid.... so you purposely exclude them to try to convince yourself that you are right.
Last edited by RightonWalnut; 12-19-2012 at 11:04 AM..
The problem is you can not make a distinction between companies and employment that rely on government. Sure IT is good, if like Austin, NY, and SF bay it is most private companies. But DC? How many people in DC work for the government? And how many people work for private that are contracted (and thus financed) by the goverment? And how many people actually work in the private sector?
That's a silly way of looking at things, imo. Technically all industry relies on government to some extent. Why do you think companies pay lobbyists so much? Businesses focus just as much as on keeping competition out (i.e., Microsoft, Apple, Caterpillar, U.S. Steel) as they do on innovation. It's like that episode of the Simpsons where Homer starts an internet business and Bill Gates comes by with his goons and smashes it to pieces with baseball bats: "I didn't make my billions by writing checks, Homer." There's quite a bit of truth to that, only the goons businesses use are ferocious lawyers and lobbyists. They're mercenaries and that's an industy in and of itself.
On the other side of things, the Philly metro at large is a lot more well rounded than other places. This makes it much less prone to booms and busts. DC is a Republican administration away from having many of those government jobs privatized.
That is very true... too bad Bajan is too focused on wealth, status, prestige and instant gratification instead of stability and security.
Only one property on their site LISTED over $1 Million... that doesn't mean that there are no condos that expensive in Philadelphia... 10 Rittenhouse is a 33 story skyscraper in Philadelphia with 33 condos (one condo per floor). The bottom floor starts at $3 million. The buildings has NOT ONE vacancy. Cliff Lee lives in the Penthouse.
You really think there is only one $1 million condo in the city? HAHA. I find it hilarious that you exclude the suburbs... because if places like Chester County, the Main Line and Upper Bucks County got into the equation, your ridiculous argument would no longer be valid.... so you purposely exclude them to try to convince yourself that you are right.
I didn't "purposely" exclude them. What are you talking about? First, I'm accused of being a Philly booster. Then I'm accused of being a DC hater. Then a Cali/West Coast/Bay Area hater. Now a Philly hater and a DC booster. People need to get their smears straight. You can't toss around the term "hater" any time someone says something unflattering about the city you will defend and boost to no end.
Is Philadelphia a cool city? Yeah. But is it also leagues behind DC in terms of economic status and industry? Yeah. And does that fact have a significant impact on the COL disparity. Yes. To argue otherwise is simply ridicuolous.
The problem is you can not make a distinction between companies and employment that rely on government. Sure IT is good, if like Austin, NY, and SF bay it is most private companies. But DC? How many people in DC work for the government? And how many people work for private that are contracted (and thus financed) by the goverment? And how many people actually work in the private sector?
All great & respectable questions, it's something most people would want to know anyhow. Google search results brought this up but then again there's no way to confirm or deny these reports because Washington is the type of place that everyone has an opinion of. Some to defend it but an equal amount to bloat it and make it look like a blood sucking leech or something of the sort. The real answer is probably somewhere in between. http://media.economist.com/images/im...416_usc545.gif
Question on housing prices rising|This source has an answer:
Quote:
On nearly every measure, the capital is exceptional. At 5.9%, Washington's unemployment rate is easily the lowest among America's large metropolitan areas. That is down from a recession high of just 7%, well below the national peak of 10.1%. Employment in the metro area has risen by about 84,000 over the past year—roughly 6% of America's job growth, in a region with just 2% of its population. Incomes are high and rising, and the combination of job and income growth has buoyed a property market that was battered by the housing bust. House values in most cities fell in the year to January, according to the S&P/Case-Shiller index of prices. But whereas an index of prices in 20 large cities dropped 3% during that time, values in Washington rose 3.6%
Question on Government involvement in other industries such as technology:
Quote:
And yet it would be wrong to attribute Washington's success in creating jobs entirely to the public sector. Although federal spending rose, the recession forced state governments in Virginia, Maryland and the District of Columbia to cut back. And rising federal-government employment during the downturn was partly driven by efforts to save flailing private industry. The government added workers to oversee intervention in the financial-services and car industries, and financial-regulatory agencies have continued to add staff since. Washington has frequently grown stronger in the wake of economic calamity, often because of public demand for more market oversight.
Well away from federal government, Washington also has other advantages. Its suburbs support a rich array of high-tech and bioscience enterprises, many of which held up well during the downturn.
Question of "skill" & "talent" pool:
Quote:
The city's labour pool tends to be highly-skilled, and the impact of the recession was mostly felt by the lower-skilled. Based solely on the education levels of its adult population, the unemployment rate for the Washington area ought to be about 7%—well below the national average, and not far off its actual figure.
Spending cuts & how it will affect the Washington economy:
Quote:
Republican budget-cutting may now take a toll. Washington's market for office space may cool as the federal government pares back its demand for space, and local retailers are grumpy about lost cost-of-living adjustments for federal workers. But the latest budget deal largely spared the region's economy. The federal government will continue to chip in for the city's rail transit system; but as part of the deal the District can no longer use its own money to pay for abortions. This will hurt the city's poorer residents, some of whom live in neighbourhoods with unemployment rates close to 25%
Overall: A mix of ups & downs. Although government is a major presence in the Washington economy & any cutbacks to it can and will hurt Washington's economy, it's also less involved in the other sectors than some in this thread are led to believe. They oversee parts of the other sectors but they're not entirely involved from a functional point- they do help give incentives to lure more jobs & companies to the region though. Washington also has grown into the country's second largest media center (after New York) in all things related to news, broadcasting, journalism, & current events.
Realistically government is to Washington as technology is to Bay Area, finance to New York, & energy to Houston. In context, most of Houston's IT jobs are all influenced by the energy industry just as the Bay Area's clean energy programs are all sponsored & influenced by it's tech industry. These are specialized niche markets in these cities that do take advantage of branching the local economies but they do "oversee" while limitedly involved in the other industries. Boston is a education mecca as well as a state capital: look at it's IT jobs, they're all concentrated on developing from research institutes & defense contracts from the Massachusetts state government. Washington isn't the only place that has this sort of dynamic at all.
Cities like Dallas, Philadelphia, Los Angeles don't have this sort of aspect because their economies are relatively balanced & they don't particularly have a "niche" industry per se.
I mean, I lived in Philadelphia for most of my life, so I'm trying to figure out where all of these jobs are that would enable people to afford half million dollar homes. When you find these great paying jobs, please let me know because I know a lot of people who could certainly use one.
OK, so now people in the Philly metro can't afford $500,000 Homes? What on Earth are you talking about?
You know that on the top 100 Highest Income Counties in The US, Philadelphia's suburban counties are 40th (Chester), 51st (Montgomery), 58th (Mercer), 66th (Glouchester) and 70th (Bucks).
New York, Boston, SF and DC Metro counties are the ones mostly ahead of Chester, with DC taking 7 out of the top 10 Richest Counties. This is a function of the massive Government/contract expansion, and I along with you and any other citizen should be pulling for Philadelphia's organic economic growth and not DC's parasitic economic growth.
The high prices in the District, Arlington, Alexandria, and much of Montgomery County are the result of people making good salaries.
I don't think anyone is challenging you on the point that high prices are driven up by factors such as low supply and willingness/ability of buyers to pay higher prices. That's just common real estate/market sense.
The root issue here is cost-of-living, is it not?
Essentially, you can buy the same exact caliber of house in Philly as you can in DC for much cheaper. There's no way around that. Hence, your measure of $1 million homes in DC proper vs. Philly proper is not an apples-to-apples comparison.
Insofar as there is a 242% difference in housing costs between Philly proper and DC proper Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
, a $20,000 salary increase from Philly to DC would essentially allow you to "break even" in terms of cost-of-living differences.
As a result, the amount of "perceived wealth" in the DC area is greatly inflated based on buying power that is increasingly diminished.
Essentially, you can buy the same exact caliber of house in Philly as you can for DC for much cheaper. There's no way around that.
^ This.
The picture is this. I honestly don't know why every Washington thread has to turn into government related (and in my opinion absolutely nonsensical- like "people in Washington cant afford to own homes so they rent" or "people in Washington don't have a positive outlook for the future so they rent") generalizations all the time but in the context of "cost of living" Philadelphia will offer more variety for all points on a socioeconomic spectrum. Washington in an increasingly fashion cannot.
Philadelphia is ideally more "jack of all trades" which for all walks of life is a better package, it makes Philadelphia a more suitable city for more kinds of people whereas Washington is more so limited to a particular type.
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