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Why is New Orleans not on here? Also if you're gonna put detroit you might as well put up Memphis. Also shouldn't Chicago be up here since it is a major city and blacks are the highest percentage of any race in the city? Anywho:
QOL-Atlanta
People-Atlanta
Diversity-Oakland
Culture-Philly
Sports-Philly
Nightlife-Philly
Transportation- DC
History-DC
Archecture-DC
Scenery- DC
Economy- DC
Importance-DC
In order of where I would live: DC, Atlanta, Baltimore, St. Louis, Philly, Detroit, Cleveland, Oakland.
Detroit ahead of Cleveland!? Really? ... I also wonder about St. Louis ranking ahead of Cleveland, too, but Detroit I can't live with.
Detroit ahead of Cleveland!? Really? ... I also wonder about St. Louis ranking ahead of Cleveland, too, but Detroit I can't live with.
yeah. Downtown Detroit is getting better and I actually really like their downtown. I also think their lake is beautiful, and their suburbs are great. Cleveland just seems too bland for me and i've heard ohio is beyond racist. Just a personal opinion.
yeah. Downtown Detroit is getting better and I actually really like their downtown. I also think their lake is beautiful, and their suburbs are great. Cleveland just seems too bland for me and i've heard ohio is beyond racist. Just a personal opinion.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and Detroit does have certain advantages that Cleveland doesn't. However, while Detroit's Downtown is certainly improving, if you have truly seen both, there is almost no case for the fact that Detroit's downtown vibrancy surpasses that of Cleveland, at least by any objective measure. Cleveland has 45,000 more people working in it's downtown, and 13,000 people living downtown as opposed to 5,200 in Detroit, at least per recent statistics. While Cleveland isn't great in this regard, it almost certainly has more of a retail/shopping presence in it's downtown than Detroit's does, and likely more restaurants/connectivity also. I'm not saying DT Detroit is bad, but these are just the objective facts.
Also, I think it is important to note that Detroit itself actually isn't on a lake. It is on the Detroit River, which is certainly nice, but to access the lakefront beach from DT Detroit would take about 30 minutes, whereas Cleveland not only has beach/lake access less than 5 minutes away, but it is at a prominent view over the skyline.
I will agree that Detroit's suburbs are great, Cleveland's are also really (have a tough time categorizing Lakewood, Shaker Heights, Rocky River, Beachwood, Chagrin Falls, etc. as not great). However, one point I will give you is that Ann Arbor's Downtown is more of a destination than any main street strip in the Cleveland area, save for possibly Chagrin Falls or Put in Bay, and even those might be a reach in that sense. Cleveland's suburbs likely have more park space and charming main street downtowns as a whole than Detroit does, given the New England influence.
Define bland/what you think is bland about it? Have you been there? Or Oakland for that matter?
That's a huge stereotype. Keep in mind that Ohio is a massive state, and that what suits one part of the state might not suit the rest. But let's just go by history. Oberlin, which is on the near West Side of the city was referred to as the city that started the Civil War due to the prominent role they played in the underground railroad, and Oberlin College was the first college to admit students regardless of gender or race. The Soldiers and Sailors Monument downtown which was constructed just after the Civil War has names of all the African Americans who played a heroic role from the city, which was really unheard of at that time. Did you know that Cleveland was the first large American city to have an African American mayor, at a time when the city still had a majority white population? (Carl Stokes) or that John Patterson Green was the first African American elected official in the northern US? Also, CH and SH on the east side are known as model communities nationally for their integration. Certainly, there are some negative spots in the history, but Detroit has PLENTY of those too.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and Detroit does have certain advantages that Cleveland doesn't. However, while Detroit's Downtown is certainly improving, if you have truly seen both, there is almost no case for the fact that Detroit's downtown vibrancy surpasses that of Cleveland, at least by any objective measure. Cleveland has 45,000 more people working in it's downtown, and 13,000 people living downtown as opposed to 5,200 in Detroit, at least per recent statistics. While Cleveland isn't great in this regard, it almost certainly has more of a retail/shopping presence in it's downtown than Detroit's does, and likely more restaurants/connectivity also. I'm not saying DT Detroit is bad, but these are just the objective facts.
Also, I think it is important to note that Detroit itself actually isn't on a lake. It is on the Detroit River, which is certainly nice, but to access the lakefront beach from DT Detroit would take about 30 minutes, whereas Cleveland not only has beach/lake access less than 5 minutes away, but it is at a prominent view over the skyline.
I will agree that Detroit's suburbs are great, Cleveland's are also really (have a tough time categorizing Lakewood, Shaker Heights, Rocky River, Beachwood, Chagrin Falls, etc. as not great). However, one point I will give you is that Ann Arbor's Downtown is more of a destination than any main street strip in the Cleveland area, save for possibly Chagrin Falls or Put in Bay, and even those might be a reach in that sense. Cleveland's suburbs likely have more park space and charming main street downtowns as a whole than Detroit does, given the New England influence.
Define bland/what you think is bland about it? Have you been there? Or Oakland for that matter?
That's a huge stereotype. Keep in mind that Ohio is a massive state, and that what suits one part of the state might not suit the rest. But let's just go by history. Oberlin, which is on the near West Side of the city was referred to as the city that started the Civil War due to the prominent role they played in the underground railroad, and Oberlin College was the first college to admit students regardless of gender or race. The Soldiers and Sailors Monument downtown which was constructed just after the Civil War has names of all the African Americans who played a heroic role from the city, which was really unheard of at that time. Did you know that Cleveland was the first large American city to have an African American mayor, at a time when the city still had a majority white population? (Carl Stokes) or that John Patterson Green was the first African American elected official in the northern US? Also, CH and SH on the east side are known as model communities nationally for their integration. Certainly, there are some negative spots in the history, but Detroit has PLENTY of those too.
Yeah I have been to Oakland that's why I put oakland last on my list. They did this new study of most racist cities in the USA and Cincinnati came up as number 1 on the list, it is also the most segregated. I'm not sure if southern Ohio is different than northern Ohio in terms of bigotry, but I have heard a lot about Ohio being not as accepting as people think it is.
Ah okay. I'm assuming you're just referring to Oakland proper, which while improved recently certainly still needs some work. But the Oakland area as a whole IMO is spectactular with San Fran, Napa Valley, PCH all right there.
I do know that Cincy is home to the National Underground Railroad and Freedom Museum, and that Harriett Beecher Stowe lived there when she wrote Uncle Tom's Cabin, of course that was a long time ago.
It's hard to measure completely on segregation, because oftentimes there are other unrelated factors causing the segregation, and a lot of times the most unsegregated cities are also the least diverse.
I would say that culturally, Cleveland is quite a bit different from Cincinnati, but personally I never saw Cincy as a racist place either but I'm not super well versed. I know there are definitely portions of Southern Ohio that are certainly Southern cultured, whereas Cleveland generally has more influence from New England/East Coast.
yeah. Downtown Detroit is getting better and I actually really like their downtown. I also think their lake is beautiful, and their suburbs are great. Cleveland just seems too bland for me and i've heard ohio is beyond racist. Just a personal opinion.
I totally disagree with your comparison of the 2 citys' downtowns, but Clevelander1991 covered that argument very well, so I have nothing to add on that...
... As to Cleveland's racism, do you realize that Detroit is the original American "Doughnut" city: that is, the city where practically all the white people ran to escape in their lily-white suburbs that encircle the mother city. And Detroit's suburbs are some of the most conservative there is, save a few like gay-friendly Ferndale and liberal neighbor, Royal Oak. Detroit's suburbs have traditionally passed laws designed to strangle inner-city Detroit economically -- ultimately hurling it to bankruptcy and total education/school degradation -- even while young whites find it cool to roll into Detroit to see a sporting event, then head home in the evening... That's not racism?
Ah okay. I'm assuming you're just referring to Oakland proper, which while improved recently certainly still needs some work. But the Oakland area as a whole IMO is spectactular with San Fran, Napa Valley, PCH all right there.
I do know that Cincy is home to the National Underground Railroad and Freedom Museum, and that Harriett Beecher Stowe lived there when she wrote Uncle Tom's Cabin, of course that was a long time ago.
It's hard to measure completely on segregation, because oftentimes there are other unrelated factors causing the segregation, and a lot of times the most unsegregated cities are also the least diverse.
I would say that culturally, Cleveland is quite a bit different from Cincinnati, but personally I never saw Cincy as a racist place either but I'm not super well versed. I know there are definitely portions of Southern Ohio that are certainly Southern cultured, whereas Cleveland generally has more influence from New England/East Coast.
Yeah oakland area is for sure really nice if we include San Francisco and NAP Valley/ect. Plus I like their moderate temperatures.If we are going by FULL area then oakland would be much higher, since oakland is TECHNICALLY a suburb city I didn't think that the metro area would apply to it. In terms of Cleveland, maybe I was not giving it the benefit of the doubt, I haven't really spent that much time in the city to truly understand it seeing as staying overnight by the airport really shouldn't count.
I totally disagree with your comparison of the 2 citys' downtowns, but Clevelander1991 covered that argument very well, so I have nothing to add on that...
... As to Cleveland's racism, do you realize that Detroit is the original American "Doughnut" city: that is, the city where practically all the white people ran to escape in their lily-white suburbs that encircle the mother city. And Detroit's suburbs are some of the most conservative there is, save a few like gay-friendly Ferndale and liberal neighbor, Royal Oak. Detroit's suburbs have traditionally passed laws designed to strangle inner-city Detroit economically -- ultimately hurling it to bankruptcy and total education/school degradation -- even while young whites find it cool to roll into Detroit to see a sporting event, then head home in the evening... That's not racism?
Yeah I was speaking for the younger crowd and the people living in the city proper. I wasn't aware of the history of detroit, although I did know that white people left as black people moved in. Also PS I didn't compare any downtown, I actually didn't even speak of Cleveland's downtown seeing as I really don't know much about it haha.
Detroit ahead of Cleveland!? Really? ... I also wonder about St. Louis ranking ahead of Cleveland, too, but Detroit I can't live with.
Live with it. It's just an opinion.
Quote:
I totally disagree with your comparison of the 2 citys' downtowns, but Clevelander1991 covered that argument very well, so I have nothing to add on that...
... As to Cleveland's racism, do you realize that Detroit is the original American "Doughnut" city: that is, the city where practically all the white people ran to escape in their lily-white suburbs that encircle the mother city. And Detroit's suburbs are some of the most conservative there is, save a few like gay-friendly Ferndale and liberal neighbor, Royal Oak. Detroit's suburbs have traditionally passed laws designed to strangle inner-city Detroit economically -- ultimately hurling it to bankruptcy and total education/school degradation -- even while young whites find it cool to roll into Detroit to see a sporting event, then head home in the evening... That's not racism?
Not so much anymore. Racism was heavy during those days period. Most young people now days are going out of town saying their from Detroit and have no problem hanging out in Detroit. The older suburbanites definitely have this attitude however. Thank God that attitude is dying off... good riddance and they won't be missed.
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