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So I guess I will chime in. First off, lets get real. It's simply a fact that OKC and KC couldn't be more different. Even though KC is only twice the size of OKC, the two cities don't even seem that close. KC feels like Boston compared to OKC. The only thing OKC has that KC does not is the NBA. Everything else, KC wins by quite a bit. Even COL because OKC's suburban homes are on tiny lots (which I don't understand) and have no basements. KC is just a larger, more urban and more established city with better topography, nicer suburbs, less severe weather (and again, kc homes have basements) and just a lot more to do. Plus KC is a weekend trip to Colorado, Minneapolis, Chicago etc, which I prefer over Texas and what not. I like to compare KC to cities like St Louis, Minneapolis, Denver, Cincy, Pittsburgh etc and often KC comes up short when compared to cities like Denver, but compared to OKC, they are not in the same tier. OKC reminds me of Omaha size wise only OKC is more country or southern than Omaha and Omaha is far more dense and built up than OKC. But as far as Downtown and amenities offered, I think Omaha is a fair comparison. They both even have one large tower dominating what is otherwise a rather small downtown skyline.
And KC even trumps Charlotte in many categories except maybe economic stats due to the financial industry there. Other than Charlotte having a few nice skyscrapers that would no doubt look great in KC, I think KC is just a much more urban and established city again, with more to do. Now, KC is much closer to Charlotte than OKC, I will agree with that. And somebody from Charlotte calling KC "county" is laughable. KC does have an element of country culture, as do most midwestern metros, but KC is a 180 from OKC and much less country than nascar loving (southern city) Charlotte . I like Charlotte and I'm sure some day it will even pass KC in size because KC is not a fast growing city anymore, but I'm not sure it will ever catch up to KC in many other categories. KC is a much more urban and culturally rich city than most people know and this thread only proves that. Most people probably think OKC and KC are similar. The fact is they simply are nothing alike.
Okay, now on to OKC. First off and please OKC people don't take this the wrong way. With what OKC has had to work with, the city has done wonders. I mean downtown OKC has been a disaster for decades and the built environment of OKC in the downtown and most of the metro is just so sprawly that doing what the city has done really has been a miracle and has taken a lot of planning and implementation.
Even today, you see much of what downtown used to look like everywhere. Very industrial, like heavy industry blocks from the CBD, elevated highways with way too much right of way, not many new office structures, high voltage above ground powerlines everywhere etc and just a rather flat, barren ugly landscape to begin with and really low density not so great neighborhoods that surround downtown.
The city has really tried very hard to turn the city into a people friendly, walkable, vibrant downtown with recreation, entertainment, lofts etc. It's not quite there yet, but it sure has come a long way. Are metro residents responding? Possibly, but I think the city needs more time to really make downtown a destination and it needs more residents.
Now it's still not my type of city. I mean, bass pro shops, and lots of suburban style development downtown and the place is way to "country" for me. You actually see cowboy hats quite frequently in OKC. You rarely see that in KC and if you do, it's almost always not locals. The radio stations here are just terrible, country, religious stations etc. It's just a different kind of city, but it is what it is and I respect the local culture.
While OKC looks pretty ugly in the daytime (from "most" angles), the city is very pretty at night with a lot of lit up buildings and artwork. The relocated freeway is great, the new Devin tower, while completely out of place and too to tall for the skyline, is a fantastic looking building and from certain angles make Downtown OKC look amazing.
Keep doing what you are doing OKC. I thought streetcars were coming. I think a streetcar line linking bricktown to other areas of downtown and the capital, OU area would be a nice addition.
It's not going to be in the same league as KC ever or any other metro of over 2 million today, but the city is really doing what it can with what it has and is one of the few cities that does something other than hire consultants to do studies. They are implementing their ideas and they are working.
I'll be here for over a week. So for now, I'm enjoying the lack of traffic, lack of speed and other traffic cameras every five feet, few rude people (people are a bit too friendly sometimes haha), easy parking and just spend some time exploring the city.
Whoa, BChris.....I'd put Oklahoma's quality of Q against anyone/any other state/city, including KC (been there many times).
Earl's Rib Palace, Van's Pig Stand, Jake's Rib, Smokin' Joes, Dink's, Head Country, and many others easily hold their own against that BBQ north of the Mason-Dixon. In fact, one of KC's most famous BBQ joints is "Oklahoma Joes."
I guess I will have to try Van's Pig Stand one more time. I ate at the Moore location last year, and thought it was just mediocre at best. I was somewhat disappointed.
So I guess I will chime in. First off, lets get real. It's simply a fact that OKC and KC couldn't be more different. Even though KC is only twice the size of OKC, the two cities don't even seem that close. KC feels like Boston compared to OKC. The only thing OKC has that KC does not is the NBA. Everything else, KC wins by quite a bit. Even COL because OKC's suburban homes are on tiny lots (which I don't understand) and have no basements. KC is just a larger, more urban and more established city with better topography, nicer suburbs, less severe weather (and again, kc homes have basements) and just a lot more to do. Plus KC is a weekend trip to Colorado, Minneapolis, Chicago etc, which I prefer over Texas and what not. I like to compare KC to cities like St Louis, Minneapolis, Denver, Cincy, Pittsburgh etc and often KC comes up short when compared to cities like Denver, but compared to OKC, they are not in the same tier. OKC reminds me of Omaha size wise only OKC is more country or southern than Omaha and Omaha is far more dense and built up than OKC. But as far as Downtown and amenities offered, I think Omaha is a fair comparison. They both even have one large tower dominating what is otherwise a rather small downtown skyline.
And KC even trumps Charlotte in many categories except maybe economic stats due to the financial industry there. Other than Charlotte having a few nice skyscrapers that would no doubt look great in KC, I think KC is just a much more urban and established city again, with more to do. Now, KC is much closer to Charlotte than OKC, I will agree with that. And somebody from Charlotte calling KC "county" is laughable. KC does have an element of country culture, as do most midwestern metros, but KC is a 180 from OKC and much less country than nascar loving (southern city) Charlotte . I like Charlotte and I'm sure some day it will even pass KC in size because KC is not a fast growing city anymore, but I'm not sure it will ever catch up to KC in many other categories. KC is a much more urban and culturally rich city than most people know and this thread only proves that. Most people probably think OKC and KC are similar. The fact is they simply are nothing alike.
Okay, now on to OKC. First off and please OKC people don't take this the wrong way. With what OKC has had to work with, the city has done wonders. I mean downtown OKC has been a disaster for decades and the built environment of OKC in the downtown and most of the metro is just so sprawly that doing what the city has done really has been a miracle and has taken a lot of planning and implementation.
Even today, you see much of what downtown used to look like everywhere. Very industrial, like heavy industry blocks from the CBD, elevated highways with way too much right of way, not many new office structures, high voltage above ground powerlines everywhere etc and just a rather flat, barren ugly landscape to begin with and really low density not so great neighborhoods that surround downtown.
The city has really tried very hard to turn the city into a people friendly, walkable, vibrant downtown with recreation, entertainment, lofts etc. It's not quite there yet, but it sure has come a long way. Are metro residents responding? Possibly, but I think the city needs more time to really make downtown a destination and it needs more residents.
Now it's still not my type of city. I mean, bass pro shops, and lots of suburban style development downtown and the place is way to "country" for me. You actually see cowboy hats quite frequently in OKC. You rarely see that in KC and if you do, it's almost always not locals. The radio stations here are just terrible, country, religious stations etc. It's just a different kind of city, but it is what it is and I respect the local culture.
While OKC looks pretty ugly in the daytime (from "most" angles), the city is very pretty at night with a lot of lit up buildings and artwork. The relocated freeway is great, the new Devin tower, while completely out of place and too to tall for the skyline, is a fantastic looking building and from certain angles make Downtown OKC look amazing.
Keep doing what you are doing OKC. I thought streetcars were coming. I think a streetcar line linking bricktown to other areas of downtown and the capital, OU area would be a nice addition.
It's not going to be in the same league as KC ever or any other metro of over 2 million today, but the city is really doing what it can with what it has and is one of the few cities that does something other than hire consultants to do studies. They are implementing their ideas and they are working.
I'll be here for over a week. So for now, I'm enjoying the lack of traffic, lack of speed and other traffic cameras every five feet, few rude people (people are a bit too friendly sometimes haha), easy parking and just spend some time exploring the city.
Thanks for the honest review of OKC. As somebody living in OKC (and trying to like it but can't), I think this is honestly spot on.
I agree with you that downtown looks best at night. The Devon tower does look out of place but from certain angles it doesn't look too bad. There is pretty solid evidence another tower will be built soon. Hopefully, before all is said and done, the skyline is more balanced. I am not sure how much you know about the history of OKC but downtown was pretty large and dense prior to the 1960s, moreso than even today. OKC completely destroyed most of its downtown as part of an urban renewal project which became a disastrous failure. Anybody who is interested look up the I.M. Pei Plan for OKC. Had this city rejected the Pei Plan and preserved its historic architecture, it could be one of America's darling cities rather than one of its most despised.
Even if downtown keeps improving, which it probably will, that does little for the rest of the city. The rest of the city outside of the downtown area looks absolutely hideous. Poor zoning, landscaping, and building codes are the root cause of this. OKC isn't the only city on less than desirable natural terrain but other cities have made themselves look far nicer than OKC. Even OKC suburbs such as Edmond are far more aesthetically appealing than most of OKC proper is.
Now for the really negative, the truth is OKC is incredibly lacking for a metro area of 1.3 million. It ranks more equally with smaller cities like Little Rock AR, Knoxville TN, Columbia SC, and Wichita KS. Any other metro of 1.3 million in the nation will blow OKC completely out of the water. I am struggling with not becoming an alcoholic since moving to OKC this place is so boring. I've also gained a lot of weight because there is very little to do outdoors here and most of the city doesn't even have sidewalks. Nice parks are virtually non-existent. I moved from Charlotte, which isn't the most urban place in the nation but it still makes OKC seem like a small, dusty truck stop.
It's sad when many people from OKC travel to Tulsa, a smaller city, for culture and nightlife on the weekends. This was common when I lived in Little Rock. People would regularly travel to Memphis or Dallas on the weekends for shopping, nightlife, or culture. I can see people taking weekend trips to Dallas from OKC but going to Tulsa or Wichita for an escape is just sad and really shows how far OKC has to go.
It's funny you mention the radio stations. The Top 40 station here is still playing stuff from 2009 like its new. There is no alternative rock station and virtually every station is religious, country, or classic rock. I realize FM radio is starting to go obsolete thanks to pandora and Internet streaming, but radio station selection is still a good way to get a glimpse of the market the stations are serving.
I know I have been very hard on OKC and I am sorry if I offended anybody. There are worse places to live than OKC. I would rather be here than small-town Oklahoma or Arkansas. It's definitely a great place to raise a family. If you are young and single though, you have to go under 500,000 metro population to really find places that are worse. I tremendously miss Charlotte.
Within the next few years, unless I get married and settle down (unlikely), I am going to have to decide whether living close to family in a city less than ideal or living somewhere I enjoy is more important.
I guess I will have to try Van's Pig Stand one more time. I ate at the Moore location last year, and thought it was just mediocre at best. I was somewhat disappointed.
Good call. Of the joints I listed, Van's is probably the weakest link....but it's still a solid B to B+.
Wow you guys are sure rough on OKC. While a lot of what you all say is true, within the last 5 years or so, OKC has made some very good strides in becoming a real deal city. As long as it keeps going like it is, it will look much more desirable in the future. I do prefer and like KC way more than OKC FYI.
Wow you guys are sure rough on OKC. While a lot of what you all say is true, within the last 5 years or so, OKC has made some very good strides in becoming a real deal city. As long as it keeps going like it is, it will look much more desirable in the future. I do prefer and like KC way more than OKC FYI.
In order for OKC genuinely move to the next level, it must attract/retain more educated, creative, and active twentysomethings. That is a demographic that is pretty lacking in OKC compared to other cities its size. Most of the young people who stay are ones who get married and start families very young. The active, creative types move elsewhere. The good news is more OU and UCO graduates than ever before are choosing to stay in OKC rather than move to DFW for jobs (though I am not sure if its a majority yet). If OKC grows its creative class, the types of businesses and districts most people wish were here will come in time.
Unfortunately, its also kind of a catch-22. Young, creative types don't want to move to/stay in OKC because it doesn't offer what they seek in a city. The city will however never offer those things unless more of them stay.
Last edited by bchris02; 03-11-2013 at 07:38 AM..
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