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Old 03-25-2013, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polo89 View Post
Dallas, ATL, Houston Miami are all Alpha Cities. No need to play the "there can only be ONE" game. Every other region(besides the midwest) have more than 1 Alpha City. SF and LA are both Alpha if I'm not mistaken, as is NYC, DC, and maybe Boston and Philly.
The Midwest had a crapload of alpha cities back in the day but they all tanked.

60 years ago there was Chicago Detroit, milwaukee, Cleveland, Cincinnati were all in alpha category for the time but slipped
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
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Originally Posted by Fastphilly View Post
Houston is already quite large. Has a major shipping port, an up and coming airport on the international aspect of air traffic (foreign carriers are starting service there on a pace with the other major ports of entry). A city that is on it's way of diversifying it's GDP. This isn't the Houston of the 80's anymore. I have been to Dallas many times and it reminds me of Minn/St. Paul on steriods. Houston is on it's way to being a "Chicago of the South" with many similarities. The only thing I see Houston not matching up with Chicago is commerce. Chicago is in a much better geographical location for shipping and it's evident being served by six class 1 railroads.

There is a major Alpha City in each geographical location of the US. New York in the East, Chicago in the North, Los Angeles in the West, and the South remains at question. My hunch will be Houston
The thing with rail shipping, Houston does not do a lot of it's handing. It sends most of that stuff to dfw for storage, processing and shipping. Stuff comes off the ships and go straight to dfw.
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Willowbend/Houston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HtownLove View Post
The Midwest had a crapload of alpha cities back in the day but they all tanked.

60 years ago there was Chicago Detroit, milwaukee, Cleveland, Cincinnati were all in alpha category for the time but slipped
I dont really agree with that. Detroit, yes was very much an alpha city of its day.

The others were never close to being what DFW, Houston, and Atlanta are today.
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:28 PM
 
Location: Willowbend/Houston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastphilly View Post
Houston is the only city out of those four with a major port and a dominant global industry (energy). That is why I feel it has the potential to grow at a much faster pace than Dallas and Atlanta. The airport also a major point of entry for Latin America and has a variety of foreign carriers from Europe, Asia, and the Middle East.
Im not going to argue that Houston is more global than Dallas and Atlanta due to its port and its economy, but I think you are selling the other two short.

For the airports, all the carriers have multiple international flags flying even if Houston has more than Atlanta and Dallas. Dallas has a huge immigrant community and Atlanta does quite well in this regard too. Dallas and Atlanta are both major international hubs along with Houston. All have flights to almost every corner of the globe. Of course, only Houston has the port.
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:41 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justme02 View Post
Im not going to argue that Houston is more global than Dallas and Atlanta due to its port and its economy, but I think you are selling the other two short.

For the airports, all the carriers have multiple international flags flying even if Houston has more than Atlanta and Dallas. Dallas has a huge immigrant community and Atlanta does quite well in this regard too. Dallas and Atlanta are both major international hubs along with Houston. All have flights to almost every corner of the globe. Of course, only Houston has the port.
Houston has quite a few more foreign carriers than Dallas or Atlanta. Houston has what Dallas and Atlanta don't have nearly as much of. High Yield O&D. Atlanta and Dallas by comparison have a much larger percentage of VFR traffic (low yield) on international routes as compared to Houston. That is why it has enticed more foreign flags than the other two.
In closing, a city with more international ties in the business aspect has the better potential for faster growth.

Last edited by Fastphilly; 03-25-2013 at 09:51 PM..
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justme02 View Post
I dont really agree with that. Detroit, yes was very much an alpha city of its day.

The others were never close to being what DFW, Houston, and Atlanta are today.
I beg to defer. I think what we think of Alpha cities today are not what would have been considered Alpha 60 years ago.

No they didn't have the 6M people that the Southern biggies have today, but in terms of development, transportation, quality of life, economy, media presence/notoriety, etc all of them were heavy hitters. All of them would be on a higher playing field had the midwest not tanked.

What you see of Cleveland, Milwaukee etc is just a shell of what could have been. Bet you if the silly Forbes lists weer coming out back in the day it would be Detroit that would be hitting the fastest growing cities list, and Cincinnati that would be hitting the so and so list. Detroit projections were to current day forecasted a City of 4M people and a metro just shy of 12m. But we all know that these projections sometimes go off track.
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Willowbend/Houston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastphilly View Post
Houston has quite a few more foreign carriers than Dallas or Atlanta. Houston has what Dallas and Atlanta don't have nearly as much of. High Yield O&D. Atlanta and Dallas by comparison have a much larger percentage of VFR traffic (low yield) on international routes as compared to Houston. That is why it has enticed more foreign flags than the other two.
.
Yep, I work in the airline industry myself and you are right. Houston has the high yielding international O&D that Atlanta and Dallas simply cant match in volume. Like many markets it is very specific. Houston-Amsterdam/Aberdeen/Singapore/China/Dubai/Saudi/Nigeria/London/Rio is super high yielding. Houston-Amsterdam is actually the single highest yielding transatlantic market on a per passenger basis.

However, there are certainly bright spots in Atlanta and Dallas' international network as well. Atlanta-Seoul is the single largest South-Asia local market. Dallas-India has grown by 35% since Emirates started (based on preliminary 2012 numbers) because beforehand it was bleeding that traffic to Houston. It is also the largest South-India market. Heck, Dallas-Seoul is the largest Texas-Asia market.

Despite having huge international hubs in both Dallas and Atlanta, both have a pretty good selection of foreign flags. Atlanta has 7, Dallas has 11, and Houston has 13.
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Old 03-26-2013, 03:40 PM
 
14,256 posts, read 26,937,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastphilly View Post
I understand your point. But we can both agree that NY is WAY above DC in GDP, we can agree LA is way above SF in GDP, and we can agree that Chicago is a stand alone in the mid-west. I'm talking metros BTW. The South is still maturing/growing at this point so there is no clear cut dominant city, but things will change in the future.

Houston is the only city out of those four with a major port and a dominant global industry (energy). That is why I feel it has the potential to grow at a much faster pace than Dallas and Atlanta. The airport also a major point of entry for Latin America and has a variety of foreign carriers from Europe, Asia, and the Middle East.

Chicago grew to notoriety as a major transport center due to it's strategic location in the 1800/1900s. Now that we receive most of our finished goods from overseas in sea containers that aspect of a major rail center for domestic shipping has less of an impact than it once did (though Chicago does have a port that is utilized for bulk commodities).

In current times, having a major shipping port is more important than ever for a city's/metro economy. Also being a dominant player in a major industry (energy) is huge. Atlanta and Dallas are both landlocked.
Pretty much describes Miami to a T. Houston has the clear edge when it comes Asia, and Africa. But Europe and Latin-America tips in favor for Miami. And I understand Houston has a larger and more important cargo port than Miami, but the Port of Miami is tops as far as traveling and leisure(and Immigration).
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Old 03-26-2013, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Charlotte again!!
1,037 posts, read 2,047,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justme02 View Post
I dont really agree with that. Detroit, yes was very much an alpha city of its day.

The others were never close to being what DFW, Houston, and Atlanta are today.
Uuuh, recheck your history. All of those cities were on par at the least with ATL, Dallas,etc....
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Old 03-26-2013, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,495 posts, read 32,943,565 times
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Yeah, Chicago is the only one to remain a fondant top ten city, but saying the Midwest only had one alpha is erroneous.

The northeast has had a handful, the Midwest had a handful, the South has had a handful, the west had had two.

All of these cities have been alpha at one point:

Philadelphia
Boston
New York
Baltimore
DC
Atlanta
Miami
New Orleans
Houston
DFW
St Louis
Milwaukee
Cincinnati
Chicago
Cleveland
Detroit
Los Angeles
San Francisco


These came close but IMO never made it:
Seattle
Denver
San Diego
Charleston
Richmond
And others
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