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^^^The following information is straight from the link you posted. Observe...
$85.4 billion for MLB
$37.6 billion for the NHL
$36.7 billion for the NFL
$34.2 billion for the NBA
$15.4 billion for MLS
^This is the TPI needed for each pro-sport category.
$265.97 billion is the TPI for San Fran's metro. That particular metro has 5 teams (1 NBA, 2 NFL, and 2 MLB), which brings the available TPI to a negative $12.4 billion. So based on TPI, San Fran has 1 team too many. With that said, here is the list you requested. Enjoy!!!
1 Cincinatti
Total TPI-$84.6 billion
Available TPI-negative $37.5 billion
2 Cleveland
Total TPI-$84.9 billion
Available TPI-negative $71.4 billion
3 Denver
Total TPI-$121.9 billion
Available TPI-negative $87.4 billion
4 Detroit
Total TPI-$170.6 billion
Available TPI-negative $23 billion
5 Kansas City
Total TPI-$85.2 billion
Available TPI-negative $52.3 billion
6 Milwaukee
Total TPI-$67.8 billion
Available TPI-negative $77.5 billion
7 Minneapolis
Total TPI-$154.4 billion
Available TPI-negative $39.4 billion
8 Phoenix
Total TPI-$152.8 billion
Available TPI-negative $41.1 billion
9 Pittsburgh
Total TPI-$103 billion
Available TPI-negative $56.7 billion
10 San Fran (can keep one MLB team, but should lose the other)
Total TPI-$265.9 billion
Available TPI-negative $12.4 billion
11 St. Louis
Total TPI-$117.4 billion
Available TPI-negative $42.3 billion
12 Tampa
Total TPI-$105.6 billion
Available TPI-negative $54.1 billion
^^^There are about 3 other MLB markets that are not far from being in the negative, but I decided to only name the 12 that are in debt thanks to MLB teams.
There are quite a few other flaws with the TPI method. For starters, metro TPI measures just that; the TPI of the official metro area. In Charlotte's case, the metro area expanded by nearly 500k residents this year thanks to new counties being added. I don't know the exact TPI of Charlotte's new metro area (that hasn't been calculated yet) but we can make an educated guess as to what it might be.
Cities such as Portland (TPI of $90.7) and Pittsburgh (TPI $103) did not see a huge change in their metro areas. Being that Charlotte's metro is now slightly larger than Portland (and almost as large as Pittsburgh), it's a safe bet that Charlotte's true TPI is about $100 billion. This would currently give Charlotte an available TPI of $30 billion. A MLB team added to Charlotte would leave the city with a negative $55.4 billion TPI. Now, compare that minus-$55.4 with some of the current MLB markets above.
Cities such as Portland (TPI of $90.7) and Pittsburgh (TPI $103) did not see a huge change in their metro areas
Not the case with Portland. The Census Bureau will be again linking Salem with Portland in their new definitions giving the metro around 3,000,000 people.
If you had bothered to look at your own link; you'd see that San Fran is one of them.
^^^The following information is straight from the link you posted. Observe...
$85.4 billion for MLB
$37.6 billion for the NHL
$36.7 billion for the NFL
$34.2 billion for the NBA
$15.4 billion for MLS
^This is the TPI needed for each pro-sport category.
$265.97 billion is the TPI for San Fran's metro. That particular metro has 5 teams (1 NBA, 2 NFL, and 2 MLB), which brings the available TPI to a negative $12.4 billion. So based on TPI, San Fran has 1 team too many. With that said, here is the list you requested. Enjoy!!!
1 Cincinatti
Total TPI-$84.6 billion
Available TPI-negative $37.5 billion
2 Cleveland
Total TPI-$84.9 billion
Available TPI-negative $71.4 billion
3 Denver
Total TPI-$121.9 billion
Available TPI-negative $87.4 billion
4 Detroit
Total TPI-$170.6 billion
Available TPI-negative $23 billion
5 Kansas City
Total TPI-$85.2 billion
Available TPI-negative $52.3 billion
6 Milwaukee
Total TPI-$67.8 billion
Available TPI-negative $77.5 billion
7 Minneapolis
Total TPI-$154.4 billion
Available TPI-negative $39.4 billion
8 Phoenix
Total TPI-$152.8 billion
Available TPI-negative $41.1 billion
9 Pittsburgh
Total TPI-$103 billion
Available TPI-negative $56.7 billion
10 San Fran (can keep one MLB team, but should lose the other)
Total TPI-$265.9 billion
Available TPI-negative $12.4 billion
11 St. Louis
Total TPI-$117.4 billion
Available TPI-negative $42.3 billion
12 Tampa
Total TPI-$105.6 billion
Available TPI-negative $54.1 billion
^^^There are about 3 other MLB markets that are not far from being in the negative, but I decided to only name the 12 that are in debt thanks to MLB teams.
There are quite a few other flaws with the TPI method. For starters, metro TPI measures just that; the TPI of the official metro area. In Charlotte's case, the metro area expanded by nearly 500k residents this year thanks to new counties being added. I don't know the exact TPI of Charlotte's new metro area (that hasn't been calculated yet) but we can make an educated guess as to what it might be.
Cities such as Portland (TPI of $90.7) and Pittsburgh (TPI $103) did not see a huge change in their metro areas. Being that Charlotte's metro is now slightly larger than Portland (and almost as large as Pittsburgh), it's a safe bet that Charlotte's true TPI is about $100 billion. This would currently give Charlotte an available TPI of $30 billion. A MLB team added to Charlotte would leave the city with a negative $55.4 billion TPI. Now, compare that minus-$55.4 with some of the current MLB markets above.
You do bring up some great points. I definitely think there is a flaw with the TPI method. It's not bad for a measuring stick, but certainly shouldn't be relied heavily upon.
And yes, it only measures TPI within a metro area...and we know that sports fans aren't confined to arbitrary lines. Some of the markets that are listed as overextended are doing just fine. In the case of a number of the Midwestern cities (8 of the 12 listed), the teams are deeply rooted and have well-established fan and corporate support. I think where TPI would come into play is identifying potential new markets, or untapped/under-served markets. It shouldn't be necessarily used to rule out markets.
I think the biggest issue with new markets is establishing a fanbase. Even with ample population or TPI, not having established roots is especially tough in baseball. Cities with high transplant populations probably already have loyalties to other teams...sometimes multiple teams. Some people might be willing to drop them for the new team, but some will not. Some that are just general baseball fans will show up, but they might not buy season tickets. The big thing in baseball would be the ability to attract 25-30,000 fans consistently over the course of the season...which as has been stated before, is a tall order for most markets, even the larger ones (that's 2-2.5 million cumulative tickets).
There's a lot more research that should go into baseball market viability than the TPI of the metro alone. Radius population, media market population, even state population are important, as is the corporate base, the number of other pro teams (as has been discussed, MLB is mainly in markets with 2-3 other franchises), and proximity to existing teams or number of teams within a given state.
If you had bothered to look at your own link; you'd see that San Fran is one of them.
^^^The following information is straight from the link you posted. Observe...
$85.4 billion for MLB
$37.6 billion for the NHL
$36.7 billion for the NFL
$34.2 billion for the NBA
$15.4 billion for MLS
^This is the TPI needed for each pro-sport category.
$265.97 billion is the TPI for San Fran's metro. That particular metro has 5 teams (1 NBA, 2 NFL, and 2 MLB), which brings the available TPI to a negative $12.4 billion. So based on TPI, San Fran has 1 team too many. With that said, here is the list you requested. Enjoy!!!
Well the SF MSA is losing a NFL team to the San Jose MSA next year when the Niners move into their new stadium so that takes care of that!
Quote:
1 Cincinatti
Total TPI-$84.6 billion
Available TPI-negative $37.5 billion
2 Cleveland
Total TPI-$84.9 billion
Available TPI-negative $71.4 billion
3 Denver
Total TPI-$121.9 billion
Available TPI-negative $87.4 billion
4 Detroit
Total TPI-$170.6 billion
Available TPI-negative $23 billion
5 Kansas City
Total TPI-$85.2 billion
Available TPI-negative $52.3 billion
6 Milwaukee
Total TPI-$67.8 billion
Available TPI-negative $77.5 billion
7 Minneapolis
Total TPI-$154.4 billion
Available TPI-negative $39.4 billion
8 Phoenix
Total TPI-$152.8 billion
Available TPI-negative $41.1 billion
9 Pittsburgh
Total TPI-$103 billion
Available TPI-negative $56.7 billion
10 San Fran (can keep one MLB team, but should lose the other)
Total TPI-$265.9 billion
Available TPI-negative $12.4 billion
11 St. Louis
Total TPI-$117.4 billion
Available TPI-negative $42.3 billion
12 Tampa
Total TPI-$105.6 billion
Available TPI-negative $54.1 billion
^^^There are about 3 other MLB markets that are not far from being in the negative, but I decided to only name the 12 that are in debt thanks to MLB teams.
Yes the TPI isn't the perfect measuring stick as it makes existing markets with teams look unworthy but these teams/markets are already established.
But a better measure would to look at TPI based on media markets rather than MSA boundaries. SF's teams clearing get A LOT of their support from the SJ MSA.
Quote:
There are quite a few other flaws with the TPI method. For starters, metro TPI measures just that; the TPI of the official metro area. In Charlotte's case, the metro area expanded by nearly 500k residents this year thanks to new counties being added. I don't know the exact TPI of Charlotte's new metro area (that hasn't been calculated yet) but we can make an educated guess as to what it might be.
Cities such as Portland (TPI of $90.7) and Pittsburgh (TPI $103) did not see a huge change in their metro areas. Being that Charlotte's metro is now slightly larger than Portland (and almost as large as Pittsburgh), it's a safe bet that Charlotte's true TPI is about $100 billion. This would currently give Charlotte an available TPI of $30 billion. A MLB team added to Charlotte would leave the city with a negative $55.4 billion TPI. Now, compare that minus-$55.4 with some of the current MLB markets above.
So because other metro's have negative TPI's that means Charlotte "deserves" an MLB team? Personally I wouldn't risk putting a new MLB team in a metro that's not that established and full of transplants, you'd probably end up like the Devil Rays as far as attendance and value.
So because other metro's have negative TPI's that means Charlotte "deserves" an MLB team? Personally I wouldn't risk putting a new MLB team in a metro that's not that established and full of transplants, you'd probably end up like the Devil Rays as far as attendance and value.
First of all, it's the Rays. The "Devil" part has been dropped. Secondly, why not look at the sports league (NFL) that Tampa and Charlotte have in common? Here are the most recent attendance stats for all NFL cities.
^^^Do you see a pattern? Even the sorry NBA Bobcats attract just as many fans as Atlanta's Hawks (a MUCH larger market with a MUCH better NBA team). Back in the days of the Charlotte Hornets (before Charlotte fell out of love with the NBA due to a sorry owner), Charlotte set league records for sell outs.
The following shows the years that the (now Pelicans) played in Charlotte as the Hornets.
^^^Do you see another pattern? The thing about Charlotte is that the metro itself isn't all that large. However, the corporate presence as well as the regional population is large. As it stands now, metro Charlotte is only about 2.3 million. The CSAs of Greenville-Spartanburg (1.4 million) and Greensboro-Winston-Salem (1.6 million) border Charlotte's metro. Here is a list of the largest CSAs in America. Please note the ranking of Charlotte along with Greenville/Spartanburg and Greensboro.
^^^As crazy as this might sound, Charlotte has next-door-neighbors that rival CSA New Orleans in population. Thanks to the regional boost Charlotte gets, Charlotte teams tend to do very well for Charlotte's rather small size. The only reason why Charlotte's current NBA team doesn't do so well is (a) the team stinks (b) the team STINKS and (c) the previous NBA team's departure has left a sour taste in the area's mouth. (C) is the reason why the current owner (MJ) is spending millions to bring the Hornets name back to Charlotte now that New Orleans has dropped it. It's an attempt by Jordan to remove some of the fans' sour taste for the NBA.
At any rate, my point is that Charlotte has always been a good sports market for several reasons (with the exception of the recent NBA fall out). To say that Charlotte's MLB team would do just as poorly as Tampa's is a guess at best. Based on your logic, the Panthers should be doing just as poorly as the Bucs. Why is that not the case?
Like nashvols stated, there are many factors to consider in measuring a sports market. One of those factors is an area's willingness to support the current teams. Right now, Charlotte's NBA attendance could stand to be better, but so could the team's performance. I do respect the TPI method, but other things should be looked at as well.
TPI means squat for most cities! Denver has all sports and does great in attendance!
Denver is clearly the exception to the rule. How many other cities with a metro of 2.5 million have all 5 major league teams (NHL, MLB, NFL, NBA, MLS)?
Denver is clearly the exception to the rule. How many other cities with a metro of 2.5 million have all 5 major league teams (NHL, MLB, NFL, NBA, MLS)?
Well,
The Denver Metro Area is surrounded by other CO cities & the US Rocky Mountain States: Boulder, Colorado Springs, Fort Collins, Pueblo, WY, UT, MT, & ID.
Total Population = 10 million.
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