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I'm not a Detroit booster, this is like one of the first times ever where I've even talked about the place in any sort of detail. I'm foreign and Detroit metropolitan area is attractive to me (whereas the other two are not so), it offers the best life incentives and big city compensation to living in the Midwest (aside from Chicago and equally impressive Twin Cities) and the most abundant amenities for someone like me. Not even close.
I said "Detroit is closer to more scenic locations along the Great Lakes than the other two."
Myth of fact?
Detroit:
[Inside the metropolitan area boundaries]
Detroit to Lake Saint Clair: 5 miles
Detroit to Lake Erie: 25 miles
Detroit to Lake Huron: 65 miles
[Outside the metropolitan area boundaries]
Detroit to Lake Michigan: 180 miles
Detroit to Lake Ontario: 197 miles
Detroit to Lake Superior: 350 miles
Cleveland:
[Inside the metropolitan area boundaries]
Cleveland to Lake Erie: 0 miles
[Outside the metropolitan area]
Cleveland to Lake Saint Clair: 175 miles
Cleveland to Lake Ontario: 215 miles
Cleveland to Lake Huron: 232 miles
Cleveland to Lake Michigan: 290 miles
Cleveland to Lake Superior: 501 miles
A great lake is a great lake. They're all equally beautiful, and can all be equally used for recreation. I'd say it's better for a city that touches an actual great lake (Lake St. Clair doesn't count), than to live within between 25 and 300 miles of several different ones. And in what way does Detroit offer the best "life incentives". It doesn't have a more vibrant urban center, it doesn't have better arts and culture, it doesn't have better public transportation. The only thing it has going for it is size, and to me that's not even a positive.
Yeah but one of the three cities is closer to all five lakes than the other two cities are. I'm not going to start stressing that a great lake is 25 miles away rather than 0 miles away. 25 miles is nothing, distance that shouldn't even be complained over since you're not using up hours at a time to get there. You get in a car and drive that distance and it's nothing, it's reasonable distance and well within the boundaries of the metropolitan area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleverfield
They're all equally beautiful, and can all be equally used for recreation.
Lake Ontario for example has the widest waterfalls on Earth. Lake Superior is the largest lake on Earth. Lake Michigan's eastern side (Michigan state's western shores) have some awe-inspiring bluffs. They all have something that makes them distinguishable, and like I said, one of these cities is right in the thick of it all. The other two are fringe posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleverfield
The only thing it has going for it is size, and to me that's not even a positive.
Larger markets generally have more value than smaller ones. They generally get higher end retailer before smaller markets. They generally get custom car shops before smaller markets. They generally are able to pull in higher brand hotels quicker than smaller markets, decades quicker. They are generally on the short list of route expansions for air routes all over the world. They are generally gateway markets for brands from the overseas (like Minuti the coffee shop for one example of one in the United States). They are generally on the short list of sports franchise expansions. They generally are able to attract shows like Hero Jae Jong, Bonobo, Nujabes (when he was alive), Nomak, and the like. They generally are a stop on world tours for people from the entertainment industries of other countries. All of this is generally true of Detroit versus Cleveland. All of these are things that are a bare minimum requirement for me.
If we look at Detroit, we will see that it has more business ties to cities all over the planet. As well as houses corporations and their headquarters from all over the planet. In fact where I am right now, Dubai is nicely connected in business ties with Detroit. Yet is not with either Cleveland or Milwaukee, at all.
Cleveland and Milwaukee haven't garnered that level of cachet yet but that's what I've been saying, it's a smaller market, so the value is less overseas.
By life incentives I mean exactly that. Incentives I get in life to live in a place, I get a ridiculously great depth of all things Arab, a ridiculously solid presence of all things Ismaili, and a commendable (for the Midwest) establishment in all things Korean, Chinese, and the like. Basically what I'm saying is, to live in metropolitan Detroit, I only need to adjust to the climate differences to where I already live because to a noticeably lesser (but still substantial extent) I can carry on with life like I never even left Washington DC. Since those daily amenities are right there to begin with.
At the end of the day, with different things to celebrate with people of different corners of the globe, the least the city is is interesting. The most it can be is what I make of it, which to me is generally a top three market of the Midwest by what it offers.
Dubai is nicely connected in business ties with Detroit. Yet is not with either Cleveland or Milwaukee, at all.
Cleveland and Milwaukee haven't garnered that level of cachet yet but that's what I've been saying, it's a smaller market, so the value is less overseas.
By life incentives I mean exactly that. Incentives I get in life to live in a place, I get a ridiculously great depth of all things Arab, a ridiculously solid presence of all things Ismaili, and a commendable (for the Midwest) establishment in all things Korean, Chinese, and the like. Basically what I'm saying is, to live in metropolitan Detroit, I only need to adjust to the climate differences to where I already live because to a noticeably lesser (but still substantial extent) I can carry on with life like I never even left Washington DC. Since those daily amenities are right there to begin with.
At the end of the day, with different things to celebrate with people of different corners of the globe, the least the city is is interesting. The most it can be is what I make of it, which to me is generally a top three market of the Midwest by what it offers.
Just shows how little you know. The Cleveland Clinic opened a hospital in Dubai, and regularly sees royal sheiks from that region come to Cleveland as patients. And as far as custom car dealerships and luxury hotels. 1) Cleveland has lots of luxury hotels, with more scheduled to open soon: The Ritz, Intercontinental, Westin, Aloft, Metropolitan, Renaissance, Drury Plaza, Doubletree. 2) Cleveland is aggressively pitching Ferrari to open up a dealership here.
You're calling a hospital as "having business relations with Dubai" and then insinuating Ferrari's qualify as custom car dealerships. Custom cars you make on your own man, by private firms and mechanics, they aren't Ferrari's.
I'm going to slap my forehead and move on.
Whatever, I don't know anything about cars. The point is that Cleveland has more going for it than you're giving it credit for, and can most definitely compete with, and surpass Detroit on many levels. Yes, Detroit is and will always be a larger market than Cleveland, and may have more of an international feel, but Cleveland is still a cosmopolitan city that does have cultural diversity, is very welcoming to outsiders; and has big city amenities, many of which are world class.
A great lake is a great lake. They're all equally beautiful, and can all be equally used for recreation. I'd say it's better for a city that touches an actual great lake (Lake St. Clair doesn't count), than to live within between 25 and 300 miles of several different ones. And in what way does Detroit offer the best "life incentives". It doesn't have a more vibrant urban center, it doesn't have better arts and culture, it doesn't have better public transportation. The only thing it has going for it is size, and to me that's not even a positive.
I guess you can't fault a homer being a homer I appreciate your rose colored Cleveland glasses.
Lake St. Clair may not count, but you still can't see across it. Anyone not from Detroit that takes the drive along Lakeshore Dr pretty much has an instant different opinion of the Detroit area than they originally had. Not wanting to join the fight here just wanted to say that The drive along the Lake Michigan coast in Milwaukee is also fantastic.
Not quite. Both the Cincinnati/Dayton and Cleveland/Akron metro areas are very close together.
I hardly call Dayton and Akron in the same category as Milwaukee. motorman, there are endless groupings in the US and the midwest like the ones above. As a Chicagoan, I would hardly suggest Chicago/Rockford when we're talking about large cities.
I hardly call Dayton and Akron in the same category as Milwaukee. motorman, there are endless groupings in the US and the midwest like the ones above. As a Chicagoan, I would hardly suggest Chicago/Rockford when we're talking about large cities.
But Cleveland is only about 30 minutes further to Pittsburgh than Milwaukee is to Chicago. We're also only 3 hours to Detroit or Buffalo.
I hardly call Dayton and Akron in the same category as Milwaukee. motorman, there are endless groupings in the US and the midwest like the ones above. As a Chicagoan, I would hardly suggest Chicago/Rockford when we're talking about large cities.
Haha, I'm enjoying these two homers going back-and-forth. Really. This was the silliest claim, though. Consider:
Milwaukee + Chicago combined metro population: 11,200,000
Cleveland/Akron metro population: 3,500,000
Cincy + Dayton combined metro population: 2,900,000
The "second city" in each of these is pretty small. Akron has under 200,000 people; Dayton has 141,000. Milwaukee has 600,000 in the city limits, and was a top 15 population center and major American metro throughout most of the 20th century. It has far more in common with the "first cities" above than the second cities. Not to mention Chicago, well, nothing else comes close in the Midwest to this world alpha city. These just aren't at all comparable. That said, both Cleveland and Detroit are certainly underrated. I look forward to more sparring
I hardly call Dayton and Akron in the same category as Milwaukee. motorman, there are endless groupings in the US and the midwest like the ones above. As a Chicagoan, I would hardly suggest Chicago/Rockford when we're talking about large cities.
In the same token, I also wouldn't put Akron and Dayton in the same category as Rockford.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheese plate
Haha, I'm enjoying these two homers going back-and-forth. Really. This was the silliest claim, though. Consider:
Milwaukee + Chicago combined metro population: 11,200,000
Cleveland/Akron metro population: 3,500,000
Cincy + Dayton combined metro population: 2,900,000
The "second city" in each of these is pretty small. Akron has under 200,000 people; Dayton has 141,000. Milwaukee has 600,000 in the city limits, and was a top 15 population center and major American metro throughout most of the 20th century. It has far more in common with the "first cities" above than the second cities. Not to mention Chicago, well, nothing else comes close in the Midwest to this world alpha city. These just aren't at all comparable. That said, both Cleveland and Detroit are certainly underrated. I look forward to more sparring
I find it funny when people like yourself use comments like "homers" in the city vs city section. That is exactly what this section is full of, so get to work getting everyone else for being "homers." You may want to start with your area of the country. There are a lot of Chicago and Minneapolis homers out there.
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I appreciate your rose colored Cleveland glasses.
Not wanting to join the fight here just wanted to say that 
