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I'm pretty sure most tourists rarely if ever find themselves in the questionable parts of Chicago, so the danger aspect would be moot in my mind...Hell, I live here and have yet to find myself in te dangerous part of Chicago. I don't really realize why this point is even in contention.
Yes exactly, and even then...common sense would tell you that the bad areas are not like actual warzones. Crimes are not being committed all the time. In Chicago even it's block by block. I have been through a handful of bad neighborhoods here and it's not like the homicides in most happen all over. It's usually concentrated on average to certain sections of that neighborhood. If you drove through them, you'd think they were normal, albeit sometimes a little bit impoverished, neighborhoods. It just takes a few incidents to ruin it for everyone though.
For example, Chicago Lawn has turned kind of weird after most of the Arabs moved out. Marquette Park in that area though isn't terribly dangerous, but if you go East a little bit then it's a different story.
But the main point is, these areas are areas that not even locals go and it has nothing to do with it being dangerous anyway. There's just nothing to do there that would interest someone who lives downtown. There is good food in these parts, but most people aren't going to seek them out, ESPECIALLY tourists and especially when there's so many great restaurants on the tourist radar in so many safe parts of town.
Well clearly and that's ok - This is why i'm providing actual links of fun things to do in Toronto to the OP for him to make an informed choice! If he goes by majority vote even with a bias and doesn't make an informed choice than so be it! I am making an effort to provide him with links that I think he would enjoy based on what he said he wants to see and do!
Quote:
Originally Posted by yyuusr
I see your point but still I think a natural bias towards US cities will always exist, certainly US city forum.
I can understand the point for the typical tourist but I can't believe there aren't parts of Chicago one would want to try very hard to avoid at night lol!
Of course there are. There are parts in virtually every US city as such. The point is that these areas are not the areas tourists go. They aren't even the parts most of those of us that live here go.
Actually this is a great point that mirrors Toronto! The best Chinese and Asian food in general is in Markham not our Chinatown DT! However, aside from the Pacific Mall and restaurants - Markham isn't on the tourist radar in T.O.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu
But the main point is, these areas are areas that not even locals go and it has nothing to do with it being dangerous anyway. There's just nothing to do there that would interest someone who lives downtown. There is good food in these parts, but most people aren't going to seek them out, ESPECIALLY tourists and especially when there's so many great restaurants on the tourist radar in so many safe parts of town.
Actually this is a great point that mirrors Toronto! The best Chinese and Asian food in general is in Markham not our Chinatown DT! However, aside from the Pacific Mall and restaurants - Markham isn't on the tourist radar in T.O.
And the best Asian food in Chicago isn't in Chinatown either (though there are good places for sure). It's in areas like Albany Park, Edgewater (i.e. Andersonville area), and Uptown...and also there's some good sushi joints in Ukrainian Village/Wicker Park and also in the safe section of Humboldt Park. Those aren't on the tourist radar either but locals know about them and go there for the food. Some tourists do know about Argyle (in Uptown) though and Koreatown (Albany Park).
And the best Asian food in Chicago isn't in Chinatown either. It's in areas like Albany Park, Edgewater (i.e. Andersonville area), and Uptown...and also there's some good sushi joints in Ukrainian Village/Wicker Park and also in the safe section of Humboldt Park. those aren't on the tourist radar either but locals know about them and go there for the food.
I have never heard of such a thing. The best Asian food in Chicago is in Chinatown (for Chinese) and in the suburbs (for everything else), because that's where Asians live.
There are very few Asians living in Albany Park, Edgewater, and Uptown (decades ago there were many Koreans and Vietnamese in Albany Park and in "New Chinatown" in Uptown, but they left for the burbs decades ago, to places like Morton Grove, where schools are half Korean).
I have never heard of such a thing. The best Asian food in Chicago is in Chinatown (for Chinese) and in the suburbs (for everything else), because that's where Asians live.
There are very few Asians living in Albany Park, Edgewater, and Uptown (decades ago there were many Koreans and Vietnamese in Albany Park and in "New Chinatown" in Uptown, but they left for the burbs decades ago, to places like Morton Grove, where schools are half Korean).
That's because you don't know Chicago as well as you think you do or even close.
First of all, to have good Asian food you don't necessarily need TONS of Asians living there. Yeah, it can help but it's not needed. There's NO law saying you have to live in the area where you own your shop. NONE at all.
I know of good Thai places in North Center. Actually this is not my own opinion. It is that of my girlfriend who is from Malaysia (neighbors with Thailand), has only been in the US for only three years, and has been to Thailand probably more times than she cares to count. In fact, I was 4 miles from the Thailand border with her less than 1.5 months ago. There are also a number of Buddhist temples in North Center/Lincoln Square, which I have been to four with her. The last time was for a holiday and it was absolutely packed with people. I was literally the only non SE Asian person there out of probably more than 1000 people.
The Koreans did leave for the burbs, but many still exist in these areas. Let's take a look here at total Asian population:
Bridgeport: 34.5% Asian = 11,014 people
Near North Side: 10.11% Asian = 8129 people
Near West Side: 14.62% Asian = 8024 people
Albany Park: 14.42% Asian = 7432 people
Edgewater: 11.65% = 6585 people
Uptown: 11.38% Asian = 6414 people
The Loop: 15.91% Asian = 4659 people
North Park: 25.65% Asian = 4599 people
Lincoln Square: 11.14% Asian = 4400 people
Near South Side: 15.46% Asian = 3307 people
Forest Glen: 10.75% Asian = 1990 people
..and others that I am not listing that may be between 7 and 9.9% Asian but have a few thousand.
This totals almost 62,000 Asians in these 11 neighborhoods (14% of the neighborhood makeup in Chicago). I am also not counting West Ridge as we know that is mostly Indian asian and has over 16,000 Asians alone. Almost 7500 Asians in Albany Park. That's very few? 6400 in Uptown. That's very few? Stick with White Plains, NY
I'll side with you on this morathisu... He lost credibility with me when he says Toronto doesn't have as much to do for a tourist as Chicago.. clearly he needs to become more informed.
Also here's some interesting data. If you start at the core (Loop) and you add up all the north, far north and northwest side neighborhoods, you get a population of 1,143,273 people via the 2010 census. In fact, this is very close to the total population of Dallas (1,197,816).
Since January 1, 2007 (through March 26, 2013) there have been 295 homicides. In other words, that is an average of 4.775966 homicides per 100,000 people per year. Dallas' Homicide rate is 10.9 per 100k for 2011. So, in other words, the core + far north + north + northwest neighborhoods of Chicago is over twice as "safe", homicide wise, in the last almost 5.5 years than Dallas for about the same population. 4.77 per 100k is about the same rate as Lexington, KY.
Totals since January 1, 2007 using 2010 census populations by the above neighborhoods:
* Edison Park | 11,187 people | 0 homicides | 0 per year | 0 per 100k per year avg
* Forest Glen | 18,508 people | 1 homicide | 0.185 per year | 1 per 100k per year avg
* North Center | 31,867 people | 2 homicides | 0.37 per year | 1.16 per 100k per year avg
* O'Hare | 12,756 people | 1 homicide | 0.19 per year | 1.45 per 100k per year avg
* Lincoln Park | 64,116 people | 6 homicides | 1.11 per year | 1.73 per 100k per year avg
* Lincoln Square | 39,493 people | 4 homicides | 0.74 per year | 1.87 per 100k per year avg
* Norwood Park | 37,023 people | 4 homicides | 0.74 per year | 1.99 per 100k per year avg
* North Park | 17,931 people | 2 homicides | 0.37 per year | 2.06 per 100k per year avg
* Lake View | 94,368 people | 11 homicides | 2.04 per year | 2.16 per 100k per year avg
* Dunning | 41,932 people | 6 homicides | 1.11 per year | 2.65 per 100k per year avg
* Jefferson Park | 25,448 people | 4 homicides | 0.74 per year | 2.9 per per 100k per year avg
* The Loop | 29,283 people | 6 homicides | 1.11 per year | 3.79 per 100k per year avg
* Portage Park | 64,124 people | 15 homicides | 2.78 per year | 4.33 per 100k per year avg
* Near North Side | 80,484 people | 20 homicides | 3.7 per year | 4.59 per 100k per year avg
* Irving Park | 53,359 people | 15 homicides | 2.78 per year | 5.2 per 100k per year avg
* Montclare | 13,426 people | 4 homicides | 0.74 per year | 5.51 per 100k per year
* Edgewater | 56,521 people | 17 homicides | 3.15 per year | 5.57 per 100k per year avg
* West Ridge | 71,942 people | 22 homicides | 4.07 per year | 5.66 per 100k per year avg
* Belmont Cragin | 78,743 people | 25 homicides | 4.63 per year | 5.88 per 100k per year
* Logan Square | 73,595 people | 24 homicides | 4.44 per year | 6.04 per 100k per year avg
* Avondale | 39,262 people | 16 homicides | 2.96 per year | 7.54 per 100k per year avg
* Uptown | 56,362 people | 24 homicides | 4.44 per year | 7.88 per 100k per year avg
* Rogers Park | 54,991 people | 24 homicides | 4.44 per year | 8.08 per 100k per year avg
* Albany Park | 51,542 people | 25 homicides | 4.63 per year | 8.98 per 100k per year avg
* Hermosa | 25,010 people | 17 homicides | 3.15 per year | 12.58 per 100k per year
Last edited by marothisu; 05-27-2013 at 11:16 AM..
I'll side with you on this morathisu... He lost credibility with me when he says Toronto doesn't have as much to do for a tourist as Chicago.. clearly he needs to become more informed.
Yeah, this seems to be the case. There is a lot to do in Toronto, obviously. Both cities are great tourist destinations.
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